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[Kody]

The university is obvious a very powerful faction as demonstrated by the builder game Archaic posted in the CGN forums.

http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=907&goto=lastpost

Some people think that research is too unbalancing a factor and consequently dislike playing the university as it's too easy to play.

Just wondering what other people think.

Edit:
Darn it think carefully of a title before you post, otherwise it stays stuck as something stupid.

[Minute Mirage]

I like playing the University precisely because it's a strong faction. I still consider myself a newbie to the game and thus, especially in PBEMs, I like to take every advantage I can. My problem is that the University is the only faction I've learned to play somewhat well. I know I need to give the other factions a chance, but I've never really gotten around to it.

[Darsnan]

Yes, I dislike the University because of the way Archaic (and Paul) play them, as they are very difficult adversaries to overcome.

Of course, then again, if their on your side....


D

[Jamski]

Heh, you being that funny man makes laughing HARD, or? - Kody?

-Jam

[Kody]

Yes laugh at the stupid thread title.

I was being absent minded when I posted this.

[Vev]

I like the title, it is succient.

[Jamski]

Title making me big laughing yes? Very suckient like Vev saying

Uni are good like Archaic make them.

-Jam

[Curiosity]

The UoP is very strong under certain circumstances, and they're flexible enough to be played from almost any situation.

However the major factor in that game was Archaic's skill, rather than the faction. If you can manage your early game economy that well then any faction is pretty easy.

[Datajack Franit]

The stupid title prevents me from posting any kind of smart comment

[Lazerus]

I dislike them because you have to be nice to drones with facilities rather the punishment spheres


(without shooting yourself in the head atleast)

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Lazerus
I dislike them because you have to be nice to drones with facilities rather the punishment spheres


(without shooting yourself in the head atleast)

If I'm running FM, I might build a few punishment spheres, but generally speaking I don't like the research penalty too much. However, I fail to see what stops the University from building them. The research penalty is the same for everyone, and the University actually benefits from the drone reduction the most, because they have the most drones to start with. Unless you mean that the other factions can sacrifice their research easier since they're no good at it anyway.

[jtsisyoda]

For single player, any faction can win easily, so I'll assume we're talking about multiplayer.

Zak is vulnerable to probing, so anyone aggressive enough to go find Zak and probe away has a chance. The Angels start close to IA, and are good at the probe thing, and have fewer drone problems, so theoretically they should be good against Zak. CyCon has a great tool they can use-- Dem/FM with 100% econ, for upgrading crawlers and getting the SP's. Morgan can upgrade crawlers faster than Zak, too, as long as he gets to IA in a reasonable time. Consider Lal with Ascetic Virtues-- size 18 cities (versus 14 for others) and 5 extra talents. Hive can take a different route, ICS, until superior size overcomes the (relatively) small, efficient researcher. Boreholes are a great equalizer, so if you have twice as many cities and twice as many boreholes, how can you lose?

Anyone who builds the Empath Guild or gets governor will get an infiltrator, even if Zak has a gazillion defensive probes. Zak, knowing he is being watched, will have to cover every weakness, slowing him down considerably. These other factions have an uphill battle, I'd say, but I don't think Zak wins "easily" in multiplayer.

Keep in mind Archaic hardly built any military in that game because he was pretty isolated on a huge map. Multiplayer games I've seen have been on large or smaller, with more "outgoing" opponents. So, single player is skewed to favor the all-out research of Uni. In multi, that style has more risk.

[Curiosity]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Zak, knowing he is being watched, will have to cover every weakness, slowing him down considerably.

There's the thing - Zak really can't be played defensively at all.

The only advantage the UoP has is tech. On standard maps the tech doesn't help their econ, comparatively, as much as on huge maps, as they tend to get techs before they're able to use them effectively.

Since AC's military tech centres around breakpoints - AP, MMI, fusion, etc. - eventually somone is going to either probe or research their way to parity in terms of military technology. At that point Zak will find himself up against a likely superior military force.

As a result, Zak IMO needs to find the opposition and bring the fight to them as soon as he has built that decisive tech edge. Turtling is a good way to throw away a won game.

[gwillybj]

Since I SP only, I am neutral toward all of the SMAC-7.

[Archaic]

Heh. I suppose I should put my two cents in here.

Firstly...Uni is the only faction I can really play well. I've tried playing Morgan, the PK's, the Angels, and the Borgs, but I'm just not anywhere near as good with any of them. I suppose I've had more success with PK's than Angels, though I'd attribute that to having a load off from the Drone problems of the Uni. Morgans, I just can't come to grips with the Hab Limits, and I don't seem to bring in quite as much credits as quickly as I do with Uni, simply because I've got less workers per base. As for the Borgs, the -1 growth is a killer when I'm used to never switching to Planned (I solely use GA's and the vats thesedays), and I haven't been able to adjust my playstyle to suit them well enough yet.

Secondly...my effort in that builder game was mainly thanks to knowing how to handle the AI diplomatically. Most of what I did really just came out of Vel's guide to be honest. I have no special tricks. My terraforming's haphazard, my research isn't that well directed, I don't expand enough in the middle to late game, etc, etc. About all I do well is manage my economy and workers, and even then, there's room for improvement.

Thirdly, as jtsisyoda noted, I didn't really build any military in that game. IIRC, I built one single Empath Rover, and the rest all came from Pod Popping (Beating up Miriam with a single Unity Rover was priceless). As I'm sure Flubber and Darsan, amongst others, can attest, my military skills could use a lot of work. I've been working on them recently, and they're looking like they're about to be tested in two of my current PBEMs, but they're certainly not anywhere near as developed as most of the other players around, at least from how I see my skills.

In any case, I love the University as a faction, I identify with their ideology, and I have a lot of fun playing them, so that's all that really counts in the end, isn't it? No faction is really more powerful than any other. It just depends on how they're being played, and who's playing them. I'm good, but I'm far from the best.