Hate Roads - What are They Good For?

[Mead]

Roads are usually the last thing I want to build when playing SMAC.

Usually they don't do anything for me except make my empire harder to defend.

If one of my allies builds a road in my territory, more often than not I'll tear it up.

The easier you make it for you to more your troops around the quicker your bases can be overrun. Without roads I can't rush reinforcements to a threatened area, but more importantly, I have more time to rev up my production of military units to face any emergent threat.

When I do go on the offensive I'll often use the classic chop and drop routine. I'll also use the drop abilities of my units to move throughout my empire, even before I get orbital insertion (ever notice that the AI doesn't use any of its units drop abilities to drop move them 8 spaces verses moving them on the ground at a far slower rate; another one of the weaknesses of the AI).

Bad things about roads:

Invites an invasion.
Makes having an aerospace center in your bases less valuable (if you have a road leading to your base your enemy can drop three spaces away from you base and roll into your base on the road).


Good things about roads:
Allows higher production of mines (all my mines have roads on their space).
Does allow your units to more around more quickly, which is particularly good if you are using non-drop units (for me primarily worms).

The bad greatly outweighs the good.

I know some of you like roads. Let me know if there is something about them that I'm overlooking. I'll make roads for transport only if I'm making an invasion route into someone else's territory using a mindworm tidal wave. If there's some big abilty of roads out that I should know about please let me know.

Mead


BTW: I'm even less likely to build Mag tubes. Yes, they are cool, but the coolest thing about them is busting through someone else's defenses and using their own Mag tube network to transport your mindworm army throughout your enemy's entire empire taking it over in 2-3 turns rather than the 10-15 turns it would take, if you enemy had not been so kind as to build that Mag tube network.

[AMD4EVER]

Roads do help out in the critical early part of the game. Getting colony pods and formers around faster helps improve how fast you can get started.

Also you can have a lighter defense and be able to shift defenders around to compensate.

But the best things about roads are that your inner bases are directly connected to your weakers outer bases which allows for you to send probe teams up to them very easily if they have been captured so you can quickly take them back and discourage your opponent. I think roads are a great defensive tool in this way. However, depending on them too much can lead to catastrophy if the enemy does start destroying your roads before an invasion.

[BustaMike]

The bad greatly outweighs the good.

You're joking right... that's really all I have to say.

[UnityScoutChopper]

I'm too tired to respond to this well. I know you really deserve a better answer, but for the moment, I second BustaMike.

USC

[Lazerus]

What about all that time wasted moving formers and colony pods about aswell ? You've effectively cut your growth by 1/3.

If you're so scared about invasion then build some sensors and bunkers at choke points.

[UnityScoutChopper]

Here's some spam from USC networks!

roads

Many terraforming projects (especially elevation changes plus boreholes) require a large number of terraforming turns. It makes sense for many formers to cooperate on such projects, getting one project on line quickly instead of several projects on line slowly. If there is no road in such a space, every former added will lose 1-2 turns (as much as the turn in and the turn out) compared to the situation if there is a road.

Generally, formers should always move outwards from the core, and meanwhile, the core has the greatest former-building capacity. Thus the spaces leading out from the core will be travelled extensively by formers. If the formers built in the core build roads as they head outwards, then the ones that follow them will gain former-turns. (I generally try to ALWAYS have my formers either move onto an unroaded square of the road network's "color," OR onto a rocky square due to these squares' inability to receive forest-spreading, OR ideally onto an unimproved roaded square, always in the outwardmost direction if possible.)

Even if you can keep your neighbors at bay before you get drop units and choppers, mindworms tend not to be so obliging, and so a road network can literally save your outer bases from destruction by worms (though the problem becomes smaller after/if you get the PTS).

A road network increases the flexibility of your crawlers, making it easier to move them to a more productive square or one that improves the square-use portfolio for your bases (a frequent situation with tight base spacing).

A road network makes it easier for your formers to clean up after an improvement-destroying pop.

A road network makes it feasible to build garrisons for new bases in core bases (though I don't, since I can't handle the micromanagement).

A road network speeds up your spies as they head out from the core to steal techs, i.e. helps you get new tech faster.

A road network speeds up explorer units on their way to explore.

A road network speeds up any military unit on its way to the enemy if it was built pre-drop or built dropless post-drop (clean amphibious, mindworms, units' other properties make drop ability ridiculously expensive, etc.)

Finally, don't underestimate the defensive value against other factions, even post-drop. Remember, dropless units are cheaper to complete, and you will usually have some already-built in the area.

USC

[lord of the mark]

yet another thing im doing wrong - not wrt to roads, but to drop units.

In civ2 paras were of limited use, especially if you werent using nukes. Ive almost completely neglected drop units in SMAC. Seems like you guys rely on them.

Tell me more.

[Fazdaar]

Drop units are very effective, because they can move 8 spaces in a turn and attack out of nowhere. This is most useful in conjunction with choppers, because a few choppers can eliminate all of a bases defenders in a single turn, leaving it exposed. Now, your drop unit can come and conquer that base in the same turn. And when you get Orbital Insertions, you can drop anywhere on the planet from any location, so your troops don't have to be anywhere near the target base, so long as your choppers can clear it out.

[Hercules]

Except where there is an aerospace built or an inteceptor in place, I think. And if the base are close there air defences complement each other even if emptied.

[Lazerus]

Thats another reason why the cloudbase is regarded as such an important project, especially if all your bases are tightly knit.
It stops any enemy unit airdropping into the base radius

[Jamski]

Hell, I'm building roads on practically every square, just to speed up my insane micromanaging crawler strategys, and to help my formers multi-team. I've never worried about the AI attacking along my roads, 'cos normally I don't build the roads up to the borders.

And yes, magtubes are even better, I try and get all my bases on the "mag-grid" as soon as I can.

-Jam

[Flubber]

Originally posted by BustaMike


You're joking right... that's really all I have to say.

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly.

Mead,

Your statements are either a troll or evidence a lack of understanding of this game



To not build roads since an invader might use them is a defeatist attitude. Do you feel the same way about farms, boreholes etc

A couple of points

1. If an invader can rain units down throughout your empire, you have big probleems already.

2. You should be able to defend your bases with units strong enough to crush a drop unit with its 50% drop penalty. After all you DO have sensors RIGHT. THis is not counting the possibilities with perimeters and ECM (non-elite infantry will face penalties from a hasty attack so I discount them)

So lets see its

Attack value X .5 versus
defence x 2 x1.25 x 1.25

If the attacker has a weapons advantage to make this worthwhile you are lost anyway. with equal morale, this is a 6 fold advantage to the defender.

Also, why would you be so crazy as to leave a roaded square outside a base radii unoccupied -- think crawlers-- I also overlap my base radii a lot, preventing this issue


## My bottom line is that your comments ignore

1. the possibilities of hardened strongpoints
2. using ZOC ie crawlers to stop the advance
3. your ability to bombard a road if it is posing a threat

Personally I see my extensive road system as a defensive plus. It means the greater range of my land units mean I always get the first shot


Lastly-- you mentioned your love of mindworms several times-- These are powerful in the early game but are just plain weak by the midgame. They are slow and both empath units and artillery just crush them. a good opponent will have sensors monitoring any nearby fungus

[Jamski]

Me thinks someone needs a PBEM game, Flubbs

-Jam

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Mead,

Roads are a must as everyone here is pointing out.

Particularly in order to get your pods out ASAP and to minimize the need for a lot of units. REly on your interior lines to use a simple cadre of units provide your defenses. Otherwise you rely to heavily on static defenses with heavy emphasis on units. Rely on lighter defense that can respond from the interior.

Net effect. less support costs, less build queue time wasted, more mins available for facility builds, formers, etc.

Roads are invaluable end of story and should be your second t-form activity after making sure you have a 2 nut square established.

[Civmonopolis]

About the sensors in enemy territory: I always destroy them before I even think of attacking anything. The artillery may beat up the mind worms pretty bad but that's why you bring along stronger units to take care of those such as Needlejets and such. Empath units are hardly a problem when I'm against the AI they are just like the artillery units. I have to agree with everybody else roads help critically when I win a game it doesn't matter what kind of victory condition. I won't repeat anything that everybody has said so I'll leave at that.