Structural drones

[Enigma_Nova]

I'm also skeptical. Hypothetically, my opponent could make 16 bases while I still have one.

While 1 base is well under any b-limit, I apparently could still get b-drones.

I don't see how you can extract the base build order in the game but if you could, Presuming Kody's analysis to be correct,
My bet is that the following would happen:

All your bases have numbers.
The system works out how many b-drones you should have.
I don't know exactly how that works, since (presume your b-limit is 9) you have:
0 b-drones by 9
18 b-drones by 18 (1 per base)
54 b-drones by 27 (2 per base)
et cetera

Having found that number of drones it would make sense that the game searches the base numbers in this order:
(First base number 1)
9 18 27 36... 8 17 26 35... 7 16 25 34...
And if a base is yours the game plants a drone there.

This is untested but it sounds sensible.
You can test it by making a scenario map, filling it with colony pods and watching how the drones appear in the bases.

Matter of fact I might try to do that.

[johndmuller]

I like the notion that Enigma-Nova seemed to be working with that some combination of Ned's fixed b-drone pattern and Kody's global numbering system is at play here. I have personally experienced my first b-drone in seemingly arbitrary locations viz-a-viz founding order, including in my HQ, so I am pretty sure that Ned's observation of a fixed order probably stemmed from his method of testing (i.e. founding a whole bunch of bases in the ScenEd for just his faction, without bothering to found any outside his faction); using the ScenEd for testing is frought with all sorts of sneaky little zingers like that.

In other words, I'm signing up for a theory sort of like this: that the game decides that your faction is eligible for n b-drones that will be placed at global base numbers b1, b2, b3, ... bn, according to some sequence like the one Ned cites (perhaps exactly that one), but only the bases on that list that your faction controls. Each faction would make this calculation separately, so drones triggered by one faction for base # 13, say, would only occur for them, and only if they controlled base # 13.

This method would probably evolve into the game design in order to stabilize the location of the drones through capture and loss of bases, so that a complete recalculation of all or many of your base's drones would not occur whenever a capture or loss occurred for you (leading to all or much of your drone control needing to be rearranged to accomodate the new numbering of your faction's private base numbers). The reusing of global base numbers of eliminated bases would be nothing special with this system, although it could still lead to occasional new bases appearing high in one's base list (something which I have never noticed happening, btw).

[Kody]

Maniac Wrote:

Doesn't that only work if your efficiency rating will be the same for about the entire game?

The pattern works as a mod of your b-limit. So if you have b-limit of 9 due to having +2 efficiency then where the b-drones appear will occur as a mod 9 function of the global base limit.

Also this would mean sometimes having to postpone the founding of a new base as you wait for other factions to found some bases first. Won't the comparative turn advantage you lose that way outweigh the benefit you gain?

Correct, the only use I found for it is knowing when and where you will obtain b-drones and being able to plan the facilities/police beforehand. Assuming you know how many bases there were when you planted each of your bases. Personally I wouldn't delay building a base to adjust the b-drones. I would consider rebuilding bases when I have the PTS to manipulate the b-drones and allow for golden aging certain bases.
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Johndmuller & Flubber

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. The explaination I gave here wasn't as good as the one I posted in the hive forum. Basically what Enigma said is how the structural drones work. When I wrote my explaination I made the assumption everyone knew how the basic structual drone principles worked. I was merely trying to dispel the misconception of randomness in where b-drones appear that people saw.

This method would probably evolve into the game design in order to stabilize the location of the drones through capture and loss of bases, so that a complete recalculation of all or many of your base's drones would not occur whenever a capture or loss occurred for you (leading to all or much of your drone control needing to be rearranged to accomodate the new numbering of your faction's private base numbers). The reusing of global base numbers of eliminated bases would be nothing special with this system, although it could still lead to occasional new bases appearing high in one's base list (something which I have never noticed happening, btw).

You give too much credit to the designers. When a base is destoryed the global base list completely reorders. Eg b-drone levels shift in all bases that were built later.

[Enigma_Nova]

How does the game determine the amount of drones per empire?

Presuming a b-limit of 3 (which does happen in a lot of my tiny map games) :

# of bases vs. Drones:
0 - 0
3 - 0
6 - 6 (1 per base)
9 - 18 (2 per base)
12 - 36 (3 per base) and so on...
That be correct?

So how does it determine the # of drones for other numbers?
I'm guessing...
1 - 0
2 - 0
3 - 0
4 - 2
5 - 4
6 - 6
7 - 10
8 - 14
9 - 18
10 - 24
11 - 30
12 - 36

See the pattern?
Is this the way the number of drones are calculated?

With this knowledge, I can calculate where drones are!

[Flubber]

Kody

It was because I understand the basic pattern that I found your comments puzzling as I took them to mean that the entire b -drone effect was global which could mean getting B drones even if you founded only 2 bases. Now that you have clarified I see that there is even more to b-drones than was originally thought.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kody
I would consider rebuilding bases when I have the PTS to manipulate the b-drones and allow for golden aging certain bases.

You mean building a colony pod in a size 1 base in order to destroy it, thereby reducing by 1 the rank number of all bases built at a later date? If so, how does the PTS help with that? After all, you'd have to destroy a size 3 instead of a size 1 base. Also, if comments made earlier are true, even if for example you have 16 bases but destroy one of it, resulting in 15 bases, the bureaucracy limit and b-drones will still be calculated as if you had 16 bases. So though with this tactic you could temporarily reduce the amount of b-drones, eventually - if you continue building bases - you'll get more b-drones than you would have without using the tactic. Granted of course, drones are easier to control later in the game.
As you say this can be useful to easier get golden ages, but unless you're the Hive, Morgan, Pirates or Consciousness and don't have the HGP, it seems quite a lot of trouble for what you get in return.

[Enigma_Nova]

Well what I think he means is that destroying a base will shift down the numbers of the other bases.
Bases that weren't booming now will be, and bases that were booming before now aren't.

[Kody]

You mean building a colony pod in a size 1 base in order to destroy it, thereby reducing by 1 the rank number of all bases built at a later date? If so, how does the PTS help with that? After all, you'd have to destroy a size 3 instead of a size 1 base.

PTS doesn't help, it just makes rebuilding a base wortwhile as you get 2 extra pop points in addition to shifting the b-drones.

As you say this can be useful to easier get golden ages, but unless you're the Hive, Morgan, Pirates or Consciousness and don't have the HGP, it seems quite a lot of trouble for what you get in return.

You're forgetting when I come up with strategies I optimise them for the situation.

Also, if comments made earlier are true, even if for example you have 16 bases but destroy one of it, resulting in 15 bases, the bureaucracy limit and b-drones will still be calculated as if you had 16 bases. So though with this tactic you could temporarily reduce the amount of b-drones, eventually - if you continue building bases - you'll get more b-drones than you would have without using the tactic.

I think I've confused everyone. I guess I better give a more detailed explanation.

[Kody]

The formula for b-drones in any particular base is.

NBGBL = number base is in global base list (first base is base 0)
Blimit = number of bases you plant before first b warning
Bases = number of bases that you own

drones in a base = int((Bases+(NBGBL%Blimit))/Blimit) - 1

From this I simpilfy it to.
B-level = How many times you've passed the bueacracy limit.
Base B-drone level = NBGBL%Blimit+1
Faction B-drone level = Blimit - (Bases%Blimit)

When the B-drone level is higher or equal to the faction B-drone level. Then the base will receive the extra drone for that B-level. The bases will still have the extra drones from previous B-levels but those are not hard to figure out.

[Sarxis]

Wow! I wish I had known all this years ago.

[Maniac]

It's of course two years ago I had my last lesson in mathematics, but I can't recall ever seeing this before:
What does the notation X%Y mean??

[Jamski]

I just watch out for the warning that I'm exceeding the buerocracy limit.

-Jam

[Hercules]

I just watch out for the warning that I'm exceeding the buerocracy limit

Me too.

But I guess this all ties in with other calculations, so that after x turns you have an advantage.

[Kody]

It's of course two years ago I had my last lesson in mathematics, but I can't recall ever seeing this before:
What does the notation X%Y mean??

% means "mod".

It's not maths notation it's computer notation.

But I guess this all ties in with other calculations, so that after x turns you have an advantage.

You have no idea what a big different getting 1 mineral here and there per turn makes. It's like compound interest. Think of the resimark system at civgaming. 4% interest and people ended up overflowing with money.

[Enigma_Nova]

How do you obtain this global base list again?