custom faction discussion and comparison thread

[korn469]

hey i just felt like discussing custom factions...here are a few of the ones i have created in txt form

quote: TECH, DocLoy, TALENT, 6, DRONE, 3, ROBUST, EFFIC, SOCIAL, ++SUPPORT, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, -RESEARCH, SOCIAL, --EFFIC Politics, Police State, POLICE Economics, Planned, nil

quote: TECH, Mobile, TECH, Physic, PENALTY, Democratic, PENALTY, Planned, POPULATION, 2, MORALE, 3, FANATIC, 0, MINDCONTROL, 0, RESEARCH, 1, UNIT, 11, UNIT, 12, SOCIAL, --GROWTH Values, Power, MORALE Values, Wealth, nil

quote: TECH, Indust, ENERGY, 15, COMMERCE, 5, HURRY, 80, INTEREST, 4, SOCIAL, --PROBE Values, Wealth, ECONOMY Politics, Fundamentalist, nil

quote: TECH, Biogen, TALENT, 3, PENALTY, Police State, PENALTY, Thought Control, SOCIAL, +RESEARCH, SOCIAL, +EFFIC, SOCIAL, -SUPPORT, SOCIAL, ---POLICE Politics, Democratic, RESEARCH Values, Power, nil

quote: TECH, Psych, POPULATION, -3, PENALTY, Power, FACILITY, 6, SOCIAL, ++GROWTH, SOCIAL, ---MORALE Economics, Planned, GROWTH Economics, Free Market, nil

quote: TECH, PlaNets, TECHCOST, 75, HURRY, 200, RESEARCH, 2, PENALTY, Democratic, IMPUNITY, Power, FACILITY, 23, SOCIAL, ++INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, ---ECONOMY Economics, Planned, MORALE Economics, Free Market, nil

korn469
[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited February 13, 2000).]

[Patriqvium]

I have planned to create a "point" system to balance the custom factions people creates. It would work like the one in (for example) the Master of Orion II race editor, thus giving each advantage and disadvantage a cost
(negative for disadvantages). A working system like this would make a custom faction tournament possible by giving each player the same possibilities at the start.

[korn469]

the point system is a good idea, but how do you assign points for things such as interest and free starting units? also i don't feel that a -1 police is the same as a -1 industry do you have any ideas on how to work that out? i am in favor od the idea and i hope you can come up with a working system

so do you think my factions are balanced?

[heardie]

Here is the facs from my mod

Empire, The Expanders, Empire, M, 1, Seteh Milnard, M, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1,
TECH, InfNet, SOCIAL, ++GROWTH, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY, SOCIAL, -POLICE, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 1, DRONE, 1, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1, MORALE, no, INTEREST, non
Politics, Police State, ECONOMY

Hand of Justice, The Justiceers, Justiceers, M, 1, Mikael Maltin, M, -1, 1, 0, 0, 1,
TECH, Biogen, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY, SOCIAL, -INDUSTRY, UNIT, 1, PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 1, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1, MORALE, no, INTEREST, non, FANATIC, 0
Politics, Police State, INDUSTRY

The Pravakians, The Caretakers, Caretaker, M, 1, Oprotmra, M, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0,
TECH, Indust, SOCIAL, --POLICE, SOCIAL, +PLANET, FACILITY, 2, UNIT, 1, UNIT, 8, UNIT, 9, PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 1, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1
Economics, Green, POLICE

The Sisters of Jesus, The Followers, Followers, F, 2, Terrance Láde, F, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0,
TECH, Psych, SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, SOCIAL, --GROWTH, UNIT, 11, UNIT, 1, PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 1, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1, MORALE, no, INTEREST, non, MINDCONTROL, 0
Politics, Democratic, GROWTH

he Terraforming Confeder, The Terranformers, Terraformers, M, 1, Gregory Thomas, M, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0,
TECH, Ecology, SOCIAL, --PLANET, SOCIAL, +GROWTH, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY, UNIT, 1, UNIT, 1, PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 1, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1, INTEREST, non, TERRAFORM, 0
Economics, Free Market, PLANET

The Wall Street Traders, The Traders, Traders, F, 1, Sarah Richardon, F, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1,
TECH, Indust, SOCIAL, +PROBE, SOCIAL, --POLICE, SOCIAL, +ECONOMY, UNIT, 1, PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 1, TALENT, 4, ENERGY, 1, COMMERCE, 1, INTEREST, non, TERRAFORM, 0
Economics, Free Market, POLICE

U.S. Special Project, The Scientist, Special Projects, M, 1, Kreiger, M, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1,
TECH, InfNet, SOCIAL, ++RESEARCH, SOCIAL, --INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, -GROWTH, FACILITY, 8, UNIT, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 1, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1, HURRY, 110, POPULATION, -2, INTEREST, non
Values, Knowledge, INDUSTRY

------------------
-Chiron Creators-
"http://members.xoom.com/acchiron"

[korn469]

heardie,

it looks like you used the faction editor or ACedit, and some of the text i'm not familar with so maybe we should just write factions in datalinks form from now on

here are my factions in datalinks form

quote: The Centauri Empire tech: Doctrine:Loyalty talent for every six citizens drone for every three citizens +2 support +1 industry -1 research -1 efficency they have robust efficency they cannot use planned economics

quote: The Eugenics Outcasts tech: doctrine:mobility applied physics -2 growth fanatic attack bonus units immune to mind control base unit morale is vetern bases need hab complex to exceed size five start with an extra unity rover and unity copter each base gets one bonus research point a turn suffers a penalty when using democratic or planned cannot use wealth values

quote: The Trade Alliance tech: industrial base -2 probe starting energy 15 +5 commerce hurry costs 80% 4% interest on energy reserves a turn cannot use fundamentalist politics

quote: The Utopians tech: biogenetics talent for every three citizens +1 research +1 efficency -1 support -3 police penalty when using police state or though control cannot use power values

quote: The NeoTrotskists tech: social psych +2 growth -3 morale free rec commons in every base bases can reach size 10 penalty for using power cannot use Free market economics

quote: The NeoSoviets tech: planetary networks +2 industry -3 economy free punishment spheres in every base techcost 75% of normal hurry cost 200% of normal each base get 2 bonus points of research a turn penalty for using democratic impunity to using power cannot use Free market economics

korn469
[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited February 14, 2000).]

[Patriqvium]

The point system is nearly ready. I've made the costs for hurry costs, energy interests etc. usable so that each procent of energy interest costs one point, each -10% research cost costs 6 points etc. I'll post it here ASAP.

[Patriqvium]

A prototype point system is now finished. It contains the supposed costs of SE effects. Notice that these are placed so that each of the original SMAC factions would be "balanced".

Name of SE effect
Cost per +1
Negative cost per -1

ECONOMY
8
-2

GROWTH
2 (add 1 per level, so that +2 would cost 3 etc.
-3

EFFIC
2
-1

RESEARCH
4
-2

POLICE
2
-2

MORALE
3,5
-2

SUPPORT
2
-2

PLANET
3
-2

INDUSTRY
5
-2

PROBE
2
-1,5

The system works like the one in the MOO2 custom race editor; each faction has 10 starting points. You just decrease the costs and add the negative costs to it. The result should be 0 or higher.

The list for all more "special" faction effects will be coming soon.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Pat,

I loved MOO2 and the custom race builder. One suggestion allow choice of extra starting tech with level 1 techs being a cost of 4 and level 2 tech a cost of say 6 or 8.

What do you think?

[heardie]

Korn469 do you play to release these as a mod
We also need more files at Chiron Creaotrs...

------------------
-Chiron Creators-
"http://members.xoom.com/acchiron"

[TigToad]

Umm.. I think the trade alliance needs a little tweaking. Any faction with a +5 commerce bonus is never going to get a treaty/pact from a human player and too many pacts from a computer player. Too much 'bonus' energy. Also, 4% is a lot of compound interest per term.. you can go nuts on money, maybe make it 2%.

I'd recommend giving the trade alliance maybe half the comm frequencies in the game to start and a commerce bonus of +1. Since they have merchants 'everywhere' to make them more playable with/against human players. If they are merchants maybe make them agenda:wealth and a can't use of police state. (no one wants to trade in a heavily armed community).. and focus should be explore Pacifist. (war is bad for business?)

Just some thoughts.. tig

[Helium Pond]

Partiqvium, have you checked your system against the in-game factions? Could they all be made within the system?

[korn469]

Tig,

i wanted the trade alliance to have more commerce than morgan who has 1 commerce...the trade allaince is another faction that needs some work. hmmm so after hearing your objections here what i am thinking

5 commerce: change it to 3 commerce and 3 commfrequenceies

fundamentalism...i firm about this...they are anti-fundy not anti police

besides i got a kewl datalink for them

-2 probe: everybody has a price

80% cost to hurry...unsure about this, thinking of some advantages i can them besides this one...maybe votes because with they can bride the electorate or whatever

+4% interest: how does 3% sound? i feel that 2% is a little weak

would a

3 commerce
3 comm frequency
3 interest
-2 probe
25 (10+15 bonus) energy
1.5 votes
faction be too weak?

korn469
[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited February 17, 2000).]

[korn469]

heardie,

no i wasn't planning on releasing these particular factions in a mod, i just wanted to create some factions that are new and fresh to play with with...right now i feel that they are decently balanced...though more play testing is needed, after i test them more and consider them finished you can put them up on your site if you like

i'm still actively messing around with the eugenics outcasts...have you ever seen star trek the original series that had khan in it? well they are not based on khan in particular but they they have lots of simularities

last night i decided that they couldn't use eudimonic and that wealth gave them a penalty instead of planned...i also gave them a psi combat bonus of 15% and was toying around with the idea of giving them psi gates in every base instead of the extra rover but haven't decided on it...the AI didn't use the psi gates, but in the hands of an intelligent player they could be too strong

korn469

[Googlie]

heardie:

did you get a copy of Vel's seven splinter factions?

[TigToad]

Hmm.. I think with those changes they are too powerful..not enough of a down side. They have a lot of bonuses, not quite enough penalties, IMO.. how about this..

+2 Commerce (still more than Morgan)
+2 Comm Frequencies
-2 Probe (I like that they can be bought)
+25% votes (they can buy people, too)
No Fundamentalism, that works.. tho in my mind, free trade can't happen under armed guards.

how about.. -2 morale (no money in military service). I'd recommend a police penalty but this faction should go free market by nature, and there is enough penalty to police there.

Agenda: Free Market
Goals: Discover, Pacifist

Just a few thoughts.. Tig