Hendrick's Bane

[Capt Dizle]

Danger! Danger Will Robinson. Now playing this game with generous quanities of rum mixed with diet coke.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Danger! Danger Will Robinson. Now playing this game with generous quanities of rum mixed with diet coke.

They need to invent Diet Rum, otherwise you may as well use Classic Coke.

[MariOne]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
BTW, that has to be a record for your shortest post, no?

No.

[Capt Dizle]

I promise to post more details and charts and saves but I just wanted to talk about luck. Luck needs to be leached out of these games else the comparisions are moot.

Points of fact:

Turn 2115 My first two power sats will be built in little 3 pop service bases as a result of materials pods. Branch Rickey said that luck is the residue of design and I did remember to switch production to power sats before I popped the pods, but really....

Turn 2116 A Yang artifact appeared two tiles away from one of my garrisonless service bases last turn. This turn it moved next to my base as if to capture it. I had upgraded a trained scout to a drop scout earlier and so I dropped it into my base. Attacked the AA. I expected this to cause vendetta and was prepared to back off cause Yang has noodles near my solar park. But I was allow to capture the AA without diplomatic penalty. (diplo stance was blood truce under sunspots) Immediately cashed in the AA for Sentient Resonance. Also this turn was my first two tech turn out of pure research. +3 techs.

2117 Researching 2 techs per turn I chose two secrets techs and ended up with +4 for the turn. This turn I got my second! solar flares event of the late game. Although this eliminated my three existing power sats I don't care because I launched 11 in the turn. It happens in this order, sats destroyed at beginning of turn, then builds the triple energy next turn. I also built the Network Backbone, but not in my SSC, this turn. Triple energy running at 90% lab allocation shows a yield of about 25,000 labs next turn off a cost of about 5000. This is before I switch crawlers (maybe 60 of them to energy from mins and nuts). I will lose at least 2200 labs to truncation in my SSC as its well over 7200, and maybe more. Still it looks like I will get 4 techs next turn or five if things fall right. Luck. Am at 63 techs and have not had to research the unnecessary techs yet. It won't be long now.

The conclusion after looking at my game, Hendrick's and zsozso's is that we have to eliminate or abate the luck factors to determine the true ways and means of fast transcendence.

jt

[Capt Dizle]

Correction: Another look at my F2 screen shows that at 90% allocation I will make 29785 labs with the help of these flares, with a carryover of 5209. Cost of 5220 (I was only 11 labs short of getting a fifth tech last turn). If I jack the energy allocation to 100% labs generated jumps to 32776. I don't know if the game recalculates tech cost in the middle of the turn but if it doesn't I'll have enough labs to generate 7 techs minus whatever I lose to truncation. Is that insane or what.

Sheesh.

One possible plus is that I set up my SSC in my #8 base so instead of losing thousands of labs immediately to get the 11 labs I'll need for the first tech next turn I'll only lose 499. That falls in the residue of design category but I'll have to play the turn to see if it really paid off.

[Mongoose]

Eliminating pods (only at landing site option) and playing with random events off would go a long way toward that elimination.

In Zsozso's game, imagine the difference had one of those early pod pops in the Jungle been an earthquake and not a commlink or a L1 tech.

The elimination of luck actions bear on what the purpose here is. If, as MariOne suggests, you seek merely to set a benchmark, then leaving the luck in is probably in order. If you seek to compare the efect of different styles, as you seem to be doing, JT, then the luck element ought to be reduced as far as can be done.

[Capt Dizle]

2118 Holy truncation Batman! Only 4 techs. Lost probably 15,000 labs somewhere. I don't know how. I could have backed down to maybe 80% and have gotten 7 or 8 thousand ecs and still have gotten the 4 techs. But I had to try it.

I have to take a break from this game but looks like I could be out in 5 or 6 turns if I can avoid the dead end techs.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Mongoose
Eliminating pods (only at landing site option) and playing with random events off would go a long way toward that elimination.

In Zsozso's game, imagine the difference had one of those early pod pops in the Jungle been an earthquake and not a commlink or a L1 tech.

The elimination of luck actions bear on what the purpose here is. If, as MariOne suggests, you seek merely to set a benchmark, then leaving the luck in is probably in order. If you seek to compare the efect of different styles, as you seem to be doing, JT, then the luck element ought to be reduced as far as can be done.

I hear what you are saying but ..

benchmark : a point of reference from which measurements may be made b : something that serves as a standard by which others may be measured or judged c : a standardized problem or test that serves as a basis for evaluation or comparison

I am stuck on the last bit there.

[Capt Dizle]

2119 Luck continues with one of my nodes experiencing a major breakthrough. I don't remember this happening before. I thought the lead faction was supposed to get negative events but except for a few things like mineral and nut bust nothing doing. +3 techs

2220 +2 techs and still dodging UFT. Sunspots ended and I allowed Yang to extort a tech. Too tired to scuffle.

2221 +2 techs and researching TOT. As I got the Space Elevator late I wasn't really prepared to exploit it in an attempt to grab a few late techs but I did drop on one AA in 2220 and put in a drop colony pod. Couldn't build the base until this turn however. With TOT safely in the research queue I cashed in the artifact thinking if I got TOT I would save one turn. Of course I got UFT.

2222 Threshold researched.
2223 Voice Complete.
2224 Ascent.

A dozen turns better than Morgan thus preserving Zak's honor but it was indeed a lucky game.

No less than 30 turns after the jungle bunny Zsozso.

If ever I play another of these games the luck factors will have to be lessened. Otherwise it's much ado about nothing.

[Hendrik]

JT- good job. I concede that Morgan isn't the ideal faction for SP fast transcend, unless someone else is willing to give the old CEO a try I am not going to participate in any more of these challenges, because they are basically very much suited to Zack.

I was pretty amazed that you managed to do so much better than me during my pop boom period, I thought that such a large coordinated pop boom would make up for the slow start. I guess not! Could you include some save files from the last 25 years or so?

I still think Morgan makes a great MP builder/hybrid faction, perhaps it is just because I haven't been playing against extremely skillful Zack MP opponents. But usually Morgan's commerce income makes up for the difference, and with Morgan's cash I feel more capable of utilizing techs. Morgan is just a midgame monster with green/wealth in terms of versatility. I also think -2 probe is a much larger liability in MP than in SP.

I would love to see someone else create an inventive Morgan strat for SP to compete with the brilliant byron hybrid zsozso competed with or the sikander build style you used. It is probably possible to make a scenario where Morgan would do better as a builder than Zack (IE lots of pacts, arid planet). But that is for the most part splitting hairs. I didn't create a particularly innovative strat, I just made a huge number of bases using conventional techniques.

[CEO Aaron]

Originally posted by Hendrik
I would love to see someone else create an inventive Morgan strat for SP to compete with the brilliant byron hybrid zsozso competed with or the sikander build style you used. It is probably possible to make a scenario where Morgan would do better as a builder than Zack (IE lots of pacts, arid planet). But that is for the most part splitting hairs. I didn't create a particularly innovative strat, I just made a huge number of bases using conventional techniques.

I experimented fairly extensively trying to adapt Sik's opening and play style to Morgan, and came away with a couple of conclusions. Morgan really loses out on some of his best features when packing his bases so tightly. Specialists are good at creating lots of labs OR psych OR credits, but not all 3 at once, at least until you get Transcends.

In the mid/late game, the combo of green/wealth for +1 energy per square needs lots of harvested squares to really shine. If I only have 4 citizens working tiles, I'm only getting +4 energy compared to what Zak would get. Add in the 3 more specialists that Zak can have due to Morgan's lower hab limits, and you see how ultra-tight spacing really doesn't work too well for Morgan.

Besides, Sik's build really needs to grab Centauri Ecology right away to clear off any rocky/fungus tiles for fast base placement, and Morgan really can't pass up grabbing Biogenics right off the bat, to capitalize on that starting cash and counteract the support limits.

[zsozso]

The "jungle buny" (that's me) has started to play from the game-save that the mighty Jimmytrick has provided in this thread (under the name "beer run"). First off, let me state that this map is also waaaaay above average for starting location. It may not be as good as a jungle start but it is not far behind. Definitely not by 30 turns behind
You have started on a huge continent alone surrounded by 3 very valuable landmarks (Mount planet, Uranium flats, Unity crash site) and plenty of fertile (rolling rainy) tiles. Dangerous momentum factions half-world away, two neighbours that are easy to get along and make some treaty/pact (Morgan and Lal). So, JT, your rant about artificially good start can readily be applied here too.

For the sake of comparison, I'm playing it with pure Byron style as long as there is land worthy of colonizing around. Note, Byron advocated against wasting minerals for base facilities, but certain SPs should be rush-built (WP, PTS, HG).

MY.2111 stats:
Bases: 2
Pop: 3
Techs: 6
Research: IndAuto - getting it next turn, cost 54, tech/turn 8
SE: frontier, planned, survival, none, 50-0-50
Agressive pod popping at start, built 2 scouts in addition to free one, plus using the Mining laser from the unity wreckage too - also have 3 unity rovers by now and a unity foil. One AA linked up, 3 more on the way to walk home-bound.

[zsozso]

MY.2121 stats:
Bases: 5
Pop: 12
Techs: 13
Research: CentEmp - getting it in 8 turns, cost 231, tech/turn 22
SE: democratic, planned, wealth, none, 50-0-50
SP: PTS
With the PTS completed, agressive expansion may start - no need to wait for growth, each base can rush a colony pod from the 10 free mins for 37 energy. Of course, I have to get off demo for that. But now, it is important to run demo, because I am trying to enslave Lal. Major military action with high-tech equipment: a unity rover and a mining laser

[zsozso]

MY.2131 stats:
Bases: 19
Pop: 49
Techs: 19
Research: Neural Grafting - getting it in 8 turns, cost 855, tech/turn 84
SE: frontier, planned, wealth, none, 50-0-50
SP: PTS, HG, WP, EG

Elected governor, Lal has submitted in 2125 - he was hard to convince, friendly Pact with Deirdre, Treaty with Morgan, truce with the others - nasty buggers wouldn't sign treaty for any price.
One colony pod has just reached the location for the first science center: The Mount Planet. Another one is approaching the place for the second science center: Uranium Flats. I built the very first former in 2123, prior to that only some crawlers for rushing SPs but mainly colony pods. By now, I have built
13 formers and another series is in production - starting some major terraforming soon. So far just used the land as the Lord (i.e. the computer) made it.

[Capt Dizle]

nah, you'll get no more arguments from me zsozso, I couldn't duplicate your first 31 turns with unlimited reloading....