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  • Sabotage!!

    Okay, the scenario: Me, playing on Thinker (I'm not a Transcend stud just yet) as the U.N. The hated University has nearly finished the Command Nexxus in a nearby port city(I'm already Governor, so I can see his city production). After seeing the warning, I quicky divert some nearby foil probes to sabotage the project. First probe: Kills the Network Node. Second probe: Demolishes recycling tanks. Last probe: Yahtzee! Command Nexxus production stopped.

    Smugly congratulating myself for resourcefulness and initiative, I proceed to the next turn, where the Command Nexxus appears, completed, out of nowhere, in a completely different city. Feeling suspicious, i returned to a pervious save, and discovered that the turn before, this offending city was producing an Impact Rover. What gives?

  • #2


    i knew the AI cheated, but this time travel thing is new to me too

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    • #3
      Its not the time travel that bothers me, its the, as far as I can tell, single turn rush build of a Wonder after I had clinically proven it had been sabotaged.

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      • #4
        Cash Rush?

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        • #5
          I doubt very much the University as run by the AI would have that sort of money. It *is* possible, but Occam's telling me that the AI is a cheating bastard.

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          • #6
            Technically then, you need one turn to pay the the rush, and you get the item only on *subsequent* turn.
            Cash Rush can't be considered the reason for something that you saw wasn't already rushed the turn before.

            But OTOH you can beat the AI by rushing a project even if you got informed that it was due for next turn.
            IF turn sequence were respected as it happens between humans, no matter how you rush your project, the AI should get it before you.
            Instead you can snatch it, against the physics laws...

            So, this shows how normal time-sequence restraints do not apply when talking aobut AIs and Project. And this could be imagined to happen the other way round, not only when it favors you...

            The rationale of all this... you guess what my advice could be?
            If you're tired of the AI inconsistent behavior, play against humans!

            BTW, to end all this fuss about "heating" AI.
            Why should you expect that the AI abides by the SAME rules that apply to you???
            Can't you plainly accept that the mechanics or at least the parameters ruling the AI behavior are DIFFERENT than those you're subject to?
            Hell, to many players, those AI advantages are NOT EVEN enough to make it a challenge, so that they alter the game to give even MORE advantages to the AI!!!!
            So why *****ing?
            The only (SAD) catch, is that for it to be fair, you should be totally AWARE of the way your AI opponent behaves, and which restraints (slacker than yours, by design!) it is forced to play within.
            That is, IF you expect to play a game the "scientific way".
            Many game designers (and some players... ) think that it is NOT desirable to KNOW the maths underlying game behavior, but only general conceptual trends, to truly enjoy a gaming experience.
            It is fun to be forced to face lots of enemy AI units, rather than just a few. Why should a player care whether the AI achieves to produces that big army because it's efficinet and smart in the provisioning and usage of resources, or plainly because AI units are muche cheaper to produce that the human counterparts?
            (beware, I understand but do NOT agree with this school of thought, so don't argue with me because of it )
            I don't exactly know what I mean by that, but I mean it (Holden Caulfield)

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            • #7
              PS: of course my keyboard ate a 'c', and "cheating" AI became "heating"!!
              I don't exactly know what I mean by that, but I mean it (Holden Caulfield)

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              • #8
                Its not the cheating, per se, that annoys me about this situaction, its the fact a strategy that would be completely valid against a human player is worthless against the AI. Sure, the AI can fudge production, build better than it terraforms, etc, because its shitty at terraforming, horrible at unit tactics. But _come_on_, I blew that project up fair and square, found his city, stole his map, and got probe there in time to stop it. To be robbed of this victory, simply because the programmers didn't see fit to make the AI smart enough to realize that it had lost its project is just LAME.

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                • #9
                  OK, OK, you made your point!

                  as this discussion is far from pointless, I invite you to reflect on these two thoughts:

                  1. most of the posts here report strategies valid against AI but completely worthless against a human opponent. Some even praise/boast such strategies *because* they are tailored against the AI...
                  I fully understand your point, and I hope you understand how I shared the same kind of frustration all the time I posted here, now that you see it from the other end.

                  2. Yes, it's lame, but once you know it, you'd adapt to that as it's the (lame) way the SMAC AI works, just as you adapt tho the (lame) way the game allows you to steal a Project under the AI's nose by breaking the turn sequence.
                  You'll know which lame ways are allowed to beat the AI on a project (or in general), and which lame ways won't work...
                  See, FurXs® was not even good to consistently program the way the AI cheats!
                  I don't exactly know what I mean by that, but I mean it (Holden Caulfield)

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                  • #10
                    Completely off track, but since you had 3 foil probe teams set to strike why did you decide not to let UoP finish the Nexxus and then simply subvert his base thus claiming the Nexxus as your prize?

                    I realize this doesn't address the insta-build Secret Project but it strikes me as a more efficient use of the probe teams especially since UoP is so susceptible to probe actions.
                    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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                    • #11
                      This is new to me... Could this ever happen with VoP or even AtT???
                      ... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality...
                      ... Pain is an illusion...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cybergod
                        This is new to me... Could this ever happen with VoP or even AtT???
                        Huh ??

                        Stealing the Voice is irrelevant since IIRC the mere existence of the voice would allow anyone to build the ascent. As for stealing the Ascent, if its already built, the game is over and I do not think that accumulated minerals come with a base if you probe it before it completes the project-- I could be wrong on that but I always probe away AI bases after a project is complete just to be safe
                        You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                        • #13
                          What I meant was - could the AI build AtT in one turn???

                          And CEO Aaron, maybe he was jealous of your retro-engineered foil probe-teams?
                          ... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality...
                          ... Pain is an illusion...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cybergod
                            And CEO Aaron, maybe he was jealous of your retro-engineered foil probe-teams?
                            What gave the impression that the probe foils were retro-engineered? Indeed, retroengineering a foil chassis is devlish difficult...without it, you cannot subvert a naval unit at sea. Unity foils don't provide the foil chassis, just as unity rovers don't provite the speeder chassis. The only ways to reverse engineer a foil probe are 1) if some other faction gifts you a seagoing unit or 2) if you use a land probe to mindcontrol a base which has a seagoing unit in it or, implausibly, 3) you acquire Doc:Initiative before Doc:Flex and use cruiserprobes.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cybergod
                              What I meant was - could the AI build AtT in one turn???
                              Not really that relevant a question IMHO but i see no reason for the AI to have different behaviors for different projects ( for which it has the tech)

                              The more relevant question is why the AI would have the tech for those projects ??
                              You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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