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Thus Spoke Zarathustra

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  • Thus Spoke Zarathustra

    For those who don't know, a few late-game techs (for example "Will to Power") quotes a book called "Thus Spoke Zarathustra". Does anyone know anything about this book? Nobody I know seems to know anything about it. I did actually find Thus Spoke Zarathustra on the net free to download, but it looked long & boring so I didn't read it

  • #2
    Famous book by Nietzsche. One of those German philosophers.

    From Britannica.com
    Definitive editions of Nietzsche's collected works have been edited by Giorgio Colli and Mazzino Montinari, Werke: Kritische Gesamtausgabe (1967– ), projected for 30 vol., of which 21 had been published by 1984, and Sämtliche Werke: Kritische Studienausgabe, 15 vol. (1980). These strictly chronological editions render all earlier collections obsolete. All books authorized for publication by Nietzsche exist in English translations, the most reliable of which are by Walter Kaufmann. The original works in the following list have been translated and edited by Walter Kaufmann unless noted otherwise: Die Geburt der Tragödie (1872; The Birth of Tragedy); Unzeitgemässe Betrachtungen, 4 vol. (1873–76; Untimely Meditations, trans. by R.J. Hollingdale); Menschliches, Allzumenschliches (1878; Human, All-Too-Human, trans. by Marion Faber and Stephen Lehmann); Morgenröte (1881; Daybreak, trans. by R.J. Hollingdale); Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (1882), new ed. augmented by book 5 and Lieder des Prinzen Vogelfrei (1887; The Gay Science); Also sprach Zarathustra, parts 1–3 (1883–84) and part 4 (1885; Thus Spoke Zarathustra); Jenseits von Gut und Böse (1886; Beyond Good and Evil); Zur Genealogie der Moral (1887; On the Genealogy of Morals); Der Fall Wagner (1888; The Case of Wagner); Götzen-Dämmerung (1889; Twilight of the Idols); Der Antichrist (1895; The Antichrist); Nietzsche contra Wagner (1895); Ecce Homo (1908). A selection from Nietzsche's notes never intended for publication appeared as Der Wille zur Macht (1901; The Will to Power, trans. by Walter Kaufmann and R.J. Hollingdale). An important translation and selection of Nietzsche's early unpublished writings is Philosophy and Truth (1979), ed. and trans. by Daniel Breazeale. The fundamental chronological edition of Nietzsche's letters by Giorgio Colli and Mazzino Montinari, Briefwechsel: Kritische Gesamtausgabe (1975– ), is planned for 20 vol., of which 17 had appeared by 1984, containing the correspondence of 1850–89. A fine selection in English is Selected Letters of Friedrich Nietzsche (1969), ed. and trans. by Christopher Middleton.
    -bondetamp
    The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
    -H. L. Mencken

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    • #3
      Thanks, now can someone read Thus Spoke Zarathustra & tell me what the Will To Power is? j/k

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      • #4
        Weeell, I've got a weekend ahead of me and I've got a copy of Thus Spoke Zarathustra loaned from the library right here... what I've concluded it's about a man named Zarathustra ( ) who gives instructions to a tribe or something like that. Philosophical ponderings and whatnot, I guess. Edit: I forgot to say, I haven't actually read it yet. Wait and see.
        Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!

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        • #5
          I think that the idea of übermench(homo superior, dunnowhatisitinenglish) gomes from nietchze, and at least that "other creators the creator seeks, not herds, not corpses nor followers, fellow creators the creator seeeks, those who write new values on new tablets, fellow harvesters the creator seeks, for him everything is ripe for harvest"-quote refers to that.

          and as one can see from bondetamp's post, niitze never intented to publish "will to power". but I think that "will to power" has something to do with niitze's other ideas about christianity beeing a slave-moral, and one should rise above it, and be a master instead of a slave.

          EDIT: oh of course, zarathurstra was some religious leader in iran-iraq area in sometimes BC.


          ok ignore this (I just had to write it):
          but beware, for I think that one should be careful with niitze, for he is not a philosopher of civilization but a philosopher of decadence.
          My Words Are Backed With Bad Attitude And VETERAN KNIGHTS!

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          • #6
            Thus Spoke Zarathustra

            I can't understand why anybody would want to sit at a computer and read that. Reading on paper is less eye strain I find.

            I like Thus Spoke Zarathustra, it was with Zarathustra that Nietzsche introduced his cosmic concept eternal recurrence.

            Read it once and you'll may believe you will read it an infinite number of times more. Yikes.

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            • #7
              As Andemagne indicated, Zarathustra (Greek name Zoroaster) was a Persian who founded the religion Zoroastrianism around 650 BC. I don't know if this is the same Zarathustra Nietzsche was thinking of.

              Interestingly (at least to me), when the Persian ruler Cyrus the Great (grandfather of my namesake, Darius I) conquered Babylon, his Zoroastrian beliefs influenced him to free the Hebrews who had been exiled in Babylon. According to some sources, elements of Zoroastrianism were adopted by the Hebrews and later by Christians.

              Source: www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/PERSIANS.HTM
              "I love justice, I hate iniquity. It is not my pleasure that the lower suffer injustice because of the higher." - Darius I, 550-486 BC

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              • #8
                Hehe, Zoroastrianism. I've read about those guys. They worshipped dogs.

                As for Nietchze, he said, "That which does not kill me makes me stronger." I've always thought that that was mostly true, but is completely ridiculous if we're talking about losing an arm or something.
                "Luck's last match struck in the pouring down wind." - Chris Cornell, "Mindriot"

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                • #9
                  a bit about nietzsche

                  hi there

                  i dont normally post but this topic caught my eye as i did part of my undergraduate degree on nietzsche

                  the will to power is nietzsches theory of the driving force behind the whole of nature. Under this view every animal (including humans) has an inate desire to increase its influence over other things/lifeforms. This is not neccesarily as brutal as it sounds, as it could involve exerting power in a psychological or creative way (although it is often aggresive).
                  The superman or ubermensch is the perfect embodiment of this will. He is the antithesis of christian morality being neither meek, just, nor merciful. Rather he creates his own moral code which is justified by virtue of his superiority over 'the herd' and his greatness of spirit and embracing of life.

                  This philosophy was of course later taken by the nazis and used for their own ends.

                  One must of course take all this in context.
                  Nietzsche was erm . . . rather unbalanced to say the least. He was finally institutionalised after seeing a horse being whipped in the street, he subsequently hugged the creature while sobbing and broke down.

                  One of the reasons I love SMAC is the intellectual challenge of its concepts. What other computer game touches on such difficult subject matter while still remaining entertaining?

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                  • #10
                    Anyone else here find a connection between Zarathustra, and Zathras of Babylon 5? Zathras uses the third person of himself, as does Zarathustra.

                    Nietzsche was erm . . . rather unbalanced to say the least. He was finally institutionalised after seeing a horse being whipped in the street, he subsequently hugged the creature while sobbing and broke down.
                    After reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra for a while, I agree. He was some strange birdie. So far at least his views on warfare and women (S/M ) have made me pout.
                    Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BustaMike
                      "That which does not kill me makes me stronger."
                      Or for pessimists, ala the Despair, Inc Demotivators calendar
                      "That which does not kill me, only postpones the inevitable".
                      Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
                      Japher: "crap, did I just post in this thread?"
                      "Bloody hell, Lefty.....number one in my list of persons I have no intention of annoying, ever." Bugs ****ing Bunny
                      From a 6th grader who readily adpated to internet culture: "Pay attention now, because your opinions suck"

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                      • #12
                        Famous quote which didn't quite make it into 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra':

                        "God is dead" - Nietzsche
                        "Nietzsche is dead" - God

                        Zarathustra isn't the best text out of those mentioned in SMAC (they obviously had a philosophy student on the team...). Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason and Rousseau's Discourse on Inequality (as well as his Social Contract) are both very good reads.
                        "Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman

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                        • #13
                          "Could it be! That old holy man in his forest hasn't heard yet that God is dead!" (translated from Finnish)
                          Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!

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                          • #14
                            He was the inventor of nihilism (of course, he was not one himself) and in a way, he inspired and helped create fascism, you can very clearly see ideas in TSZ in Mein Kamf and Fight club

                            i have copies of all three books - a scary philosophy ill tell you that riight now

                            I disagree with him on every level

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                            • #15
                              Yeah, he said that to be moral was to be weak. Intensely scary bloke. He believed morality had never done anything good for the world.
                              "Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman

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