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AI Faction Strategy and doing without Centauri Ecology

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  • #1

    AI Faction Strategy and doing without Centauri Ecology

    I'm playing on Talent level. It's about 160+ turns into the game, and the Believers:

    (a) do not have Centauri Ecology or Formers
    (b) do not bother asking for it
    (c) are probably not researching it

    I'm thinking... HUH?!

    In previous games, Believers have mass-produced bases, and it looks like they are still doing that (I took a peek with the Scenario Editor and they've got something like 5 colony pods crawling around).
    In the short-term, I can see them expanding and building military to swarm and conquer, especially with their nifty +25% attack bonus, but in the long run, can a faction do without Centauri Ecology?
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  • #2
    Given the capabilities of the AI in terraforming, the loss is not nearly as devestating as it would be to a human. That said, perhaps you should play at Transcend so that these AI factions will research faster and trade more quickly with one another. In a lot of games I see one AI faction that just kinds of hits some sort of snag and goes into hibernation more or less. This is probably somewhat realistic, but it doesn't make the game more interesting.
    He's got the Midas touch.
    But he touched it too much!
    Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!

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    • #3
      No formers, hmmmm.

      I know that Centauri Ecology was the item you mentioned, but I couldn't help thinking what it would be like without formers. I played a number of games (as Miriam, in fact) where it was only allowed to build probe teams (although 1 land and 1 sea former were allowed to be built) - anything else had to be probed away. Doing without formers would be a lot like that, whether or not probing someone else's formers were allowed. You could always conquer/probe someone else's already terraformed land (although with the AI's terraforming, that would not necessarily be that great).

      Doing without Centauri Ecology looks like it could be possible; although it would not be possible to transcend unless you modified the tech tree, the lack of Centauri Ecology does not really propagate throughout the whole tree, so not that many techs are impossible.

      Crawlers would still be available, so one could still get a lot of production going with double or triple the usual number of crawlers and the fact that you need Centauri Ecol to lift the Min and Energy restrictions wouldn't matter that much if you couldn't do the terraforming anyway.

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      • #4
        Weird stuff. I never really though about it, but I think if you were careful and lucky enough, you could do without Centauri Ecology.

        What would that imply if you were playing in-character? That your faction is so absorbed in its stuff that they didn't even notice they weren't on Earth any more?
        Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost.

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        • #5
          Just unitl they discover they somehow can't build a road from point A to point b.

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          • #6
            No formers is a doable prospect. I played a game as Dee (who couldn't bear to destroy the landscape) and it worked out fairly well. Use fungus for Nuts and Monoliths where you can find them. ICS, recycle tanks and crawler rolling and rockies, Beeline up the green path to increase fungus production and your set. (If you pollute and create a fungal pop or two it helps out as well.)

            Course with Dee there was no need to research Centauri Eco
            "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

            “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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            • #7
              Centauri Ecology not needed for military advancement

              Miriam is not particularly concerned with ecology anyway.
              Skipping Centauri Ecology (and every subsequent technology which requires it) would allow her to research all the way up to Matter Editation (B12).
              Taking and applying every technology otherwise available, she will have Clean Fusion Power; Cruisers, Needlejets, Copters, and Hovertanks; Nerve Gas Pods, Amphibious Pods, Drop Pods, and Gene Warfare; Plasma Shard (A13) and Antimatter Plate (D10).
              She will be launch-capable. Her bases will have Tachyon Shields.
              She may have built (among others) The Network Backbone, The Self-Aware Colony, and The Universal Translator.
              Assuming she can hold off the worms, her bases will grow at an acceptable rate, but those with several fungus squares nearby will stagnate early. She will not have as much eco-damage, but will also lack any special environmental defenses.
              Not a particularly easy path to take, but, as Ogie said, "a doable prospect".
              I am on a mission to see how much coffee it takes to actually achieve time travel.

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              • #8
                i had something similar to this in a game im playing right now. the hive,spartans and believers all are missing the tech allowing green. i was informed global warming was occuring,and having only 1 base with any eco damage at all,i used cheats to edit there SE and see how many AIs where using green.

                apparantly,the spartans\believers\hive did not have whatever tech it is and those 3 couldnt choose green. this was on transcend. this was around 2320 and everyone had singularity researched....weird. maybe they all had research probs and used probe teams for tech( i do know that miriam had 1 tech\325 years )
                if you want to stop terrorism; stop participating in it

                ''Oh,Commissar,if we could put the potatoes in one pile,they would reach the foot of God''.But,replied the commissar,''This is the Soviet Union.There is no God''.''Thats all right'' said the worker,''There are no potatoes''

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                • #9
                  ( i do know that miriam had 1 tech\325 years )
                  he he he Serves the ugly witch right...

                  BTW, while playing a "modified" game on Transcend, which gave al AI factions a fre former at start, Santiago and Yang never bothered to research Centauri Ecology and just used the single former - and at one point even terraformed more than me!!!

                  But I have never seen the AI use crawlers to their full ORIGINAL potential (that is NOT hurrying SPs but CRAWLING)

                  --Nikola
                  ... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality...
                  ... Pain is an illusion...

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                  • #10
                    ive only seen the AI use crawlers once-yang had one getting 4 energy\year(was planetary gov. and was checking his base garrisons)

                    how could you get out-terraformed by 1 former??
                    if you want to stop terrorism; stop participating in it

                    ''Oh,Commissar,if we could put the potatoes in one pile,they would reach the foot of God''.But,replied the commissar,''This is the Soviet Union.There is no God''.''Thats all right'' said the worker,''There are no potatoes''

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                    • #11
                      [SIZE=1]

                      how could you get out-terraformed by 1 former??
                      AI cheats
                      It's close to midnight and something evil's is lurking in the dark.

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                      • #12
                        i dont think the AI recieves any former bonus,and even if it did all improvements in 1-2 turns,i still dont see it out-formering 50+ of your own formers...
                        if you want to stop terrorism; stop participating in it

                        ''Oh,Commissar,if we could put the potatoes in one pile,they would reach the foot of God''.But,replied the commissar,''This is the Soviet Union.There is no God''.''Thats all right'' said the worker,''There are no potatoes''

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by knowhow2


                          AI cheats
                          I can believe that. I think on Transcend, the AI gets +3 Industry to begin with, for starters. Probably get all kinds of other neat bonuses, too.

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                          • #14
                            Actually the AI only gets +2 industry on transcend, +1 on thinker, even on librarian, etc.

                            The AI cheat I don't like is its ability to see your units no matter if they are hiding in fungus, are subs, or have a cloaking device. The AI sees it coming no matter what.

                            Something interesting... AI controlled Drones on a tiny map on transcend can get +10 industry.

                            +2 for tiny map, +2 for transcend, +2 because the Drones start with that, +1 planned, +1 wealth, +2 eudaimonea (spelling?) = everything is built in 1 turn.
                            "Luck's last match struck in the pouring down wind." - Chris Cornell, "Mindriot"

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                            • #15
                              Actually, IIRC the tiny map bonus only applies if you have less than +1 industry, so the AI drones can only achieve +8 industry.

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