Twilight of the Mind is out!

[Hydro]

Spoot,

The Alpha Centauri trilogy by Michael Ely consists of:

Centauri Dawn
Centauri Sun
Centauri Twlight

I don't know the ISBN #s since I gave my books away.

Hydro

[Crisler]

Well I have really dug into Twilight of the Mind, I am not yet done but I find much of what I read disturbing.

Some Spoilers Below
First you have a society based on Faith in God, in fact based on Christian Principles. Yet they seem to duck a number of them, for instance the New Lords Prayer, a true beliver would never mess with the Word of God. Second the references to God being female, again the Fundamentalist view is strongly swung against.

Next we find the start of the problem, the Univerasity launches a premediated attack to cover a crime against the UN Charter. Now by the end of this attack the UN must now what was going on, I find it hard to believe they would not have some form of noticed. The University has killed thousands of innocent people and possibly another faction leader, yet ZERO action is taken to punish the University for their actions.

When Mirriam is found alive she finds the UN did NOTHING to defend her people so she does what she must to seek retribution from the enemy. (Now in fairness the attack against the Morgans had nothing to do with that so I am not counting thme in this section)

In her effort to do anything it takes to fight back against a superior force she is branded as evil and the University is seen as a blameless victim. Man talk about pure BS.

Overall it is a well written book but the subject matter is poorly covered. The plot is interesting but I find it a bit to simplistic.

I mean think about it, people that have begun to be unhappy with their lives and seek something bigger leave and go toe Mirriams group but she as branded as bad for them daring to join her, lets get real.

Also I have never agreed with the way the Belivers are portraited in the game or the book. Being a Christian does not mean you do not look for advancements in science. I do believe in a Christian society they would be slower, but that is due to spending time doing a moral evaluation of each discovery so the society can be held accountable for any effect the discover might have.

Overall I found the book to be an interesting idea but poorly executed.

E.L. Crisler

[Haon]

One Trilogy I would really like to read would be about the history of the Progenitors and how there civil war began, that would be very intresting!

[Bearcat]

Having read all of Micheal Ely's books, I think I enjoyed Centauri Dawn the most, although I was a little dissapointed that Jahn was killed in the end along with his son. My question for Michael, is what made you decide to portray the Believers as being so backwards. Usually in the game, the Believers manage to keep up with the other factions, I just never though of them as being so medieval

Also, do the Spartans and Believers have standing armies like that of the Peacekeepers or University or were the Myrmidons and Templars the closest to actual enlisted soldiers that those two factions have?

Nice work though, I hope you choose to write more about SMAC or SMAC-X.

[michael_ely]

Wow, I haven't checked this thread in awhile. But since I checked back, here are a few thoughts:

I agree that Miriam could have easily been slanted toward a more science-friendly Christian faith. She is backwards in book 3 for maximum contrast with technology, the theme of this book (as book 1 was war vs peace and book 2 was commerce vs nature). The reason the Council sides with Zak is that Zak is part of the Council and Miriam (for purposes of this book) is not...Zak has all the friends in high places. The University, as a social organism, is threatened by Miriam and so defends itself by labeling her evil and marshalling allies against her. But the reader does not have to agree with the Council’s actions.

The ending. Yes, hmm, not liked by many. When I wrote this book I didn't want an ending that was like any of the game endings, which had already been "written" in the game. That left out straight conquering, transcendence, cornering the energy market, and being voted supreme leader.

Actually, the original planned ending for the book was that there would be some sort of temporal warp, and some cross section of humanity would get a chance to go back in time to Earth before the apocalypse and stop the course of destruction there. The dilemma of doing this is that they would then undo all of the learning and wisdom that humanity had achieved in the meantime.

But, time travel didn't feel right in the context of the SMAC world. So I decided to change it to a kind of virtual world rescue of Earth...a cross section of leaders would, in their minds (and so to them, in reality) travel back and save Earth, and have to make the same choice. Of course Pravin would be heavily involved, and his Earth Pria. That single human relationship, to me, embodies the troubles and hope of humanity through the novels. All the more interesting because you don’t really meet original Pria…she only says one word in the entire trilogy, in the prologue to Centauri Dawn.

But, during the writing of the book, it kind of shifted to the dark ending as it was published. I can't say why, except maybe that I was living in Minnesota at the time and that affected my mood If I had to do it again I would probably shift to a more positive ending, perhaps with Pravin becoming supreme leader.

That said, I believe Pravin surviving with Pria does give the book a somewhat hopeful ending. One goal in these books was to explore the individual relationships that you don't see in an epic god-game such as SMAC…all the lives that are affected every time you plow that tank unit into the enemy city. Pravin is the central character in that regard; if he survives, hope survives. It would be a lot different if, say, Santiago was the one who made it to the hidden base. Originally there was also an epilogue, with Pravin and Pria landing in the Gaian base and being welcomed by the Talents there, but that got taken out before the book was published.

Most people I've seen play SMAC in a bloodthirsty way. They relish the conquering of the enemy, rejoice in wiping out cities, and love the chaos of the planet buster. Actually, I like that aspect as well. It seems to be part of human nature, and the books say...is it? Should it be? Can it not be?

As to my own favorite of the three books, my opinion (which doesn’t count for much!) is that I like book 2 the best. I had the most time to write it and I personally love the climax, with Deirdre and Yang, two characters who are so different and so at odds, traveling back through their lives together in the planetmind and fully understanding one another. These little moments of understanding punctuate the three books…Santiago and Lal at the end of the first book, Skye and Yang here, and the leaders at the end of book three before they go into the virtual world. The book 2 climax sort of happened as I was writing, and surprised me as much as if I had been a first-time reader, which is always fun.

Anyway, there were never plans for more than three SMAC books. To those who liked them, I’m glad, and I have read every comment here, that I was emailed at bookthoughts@yahoo.com, and on amazon. I’ve considered all the feedback, good and bad, for the future.

[Qualicide]

I can't believe you nuked the Spartans.. couldn't you have Miram's technologicaly inept follower set off the thing instead?

[AMD4EVER]

Although it is probably a little late in the AC lifecycle to present new information in hopes that it will benefit anyones, I'll still post this map I made for the AC 3rd book:

http://www.geocities.com/amd_4ever/Files/ACMap.bmp

--This map is taken directly from AC so at least the land is where it should be.
--The borders I did the best I could with. I've recently been messing around with where the University land is so if it looks a little wierd right now it is because I haven't gone through to clean it up much.
--The big pinkish/red dots are the homebase for each faction.
--The nukes and circles declare the area damaged by each planet buster. The book sort of indicated that the nukes fell on the capitals of Morgan and Santiago, however I couldn't have that happen and at the same have the locations of the capitals in agreement to where I believed Book 1 indicated they were.

Something you Santiago fans might agree or disagree with is that if Santiago was in Sparta Command, she could have realistically survived because of how far away she probably was from the planet buster blast.


On another note, my fictional book referencing occurrances post-AC book 3 is still in progress just as it has been since I started it about a year ago meaning it will probably never get done. However I'm re-reading the book now and planning on continuing my book soon. If anyone is interested I'll post some of the chapters here. I'm adding in the rise of several SMAX factions.

[AMD4EVER]

“Graffiti from the walls of the Journey Room inside Hardrock Mountain”

To whomever may find this cave sometime in the future, this is a message from those who were here before you. We were a people of another planet who came here to escape the wrongs of our past world and to start over. We had hoped that seeing the truths of our past would help us build a different world here on Planet Chiron, when in fact it was just a repeat of the past we had hoped were buried light years away from here. The world we leave now symbolizes the wrongs. Yet the Night tree that we have planted here symbolizes all that we as a race have done right. For all the beauty and wonder that was created and all the amazing accomplishments of our people. I don’t know what lies on the other side of this life, but I know whatever it is, I will never forget this life or the people who were with me throughout it.
-Lady Deirdre Skye

[Datajack Franit]

Can you just add "spoilers! don't read!" to your posts

[Ravenloff]

Not to be too cynical, but I gave up after the first novel. IMHO, the author wasn't just subltly showing his bias, rather he was hitting us in the face with a frying pan labeled "my beliefs".

The U.N. the only faction with honor and integrity? Love for family? The Spartans came off as far worse than Star Trek's Klingons, which it seemed like he was aping. The only religious faction showing up in rags, starving and wild-eyed.

I consider myself a generalist-moderate on most things, but his first book smacked of left-wing propaganda. Perhaps I judged too harshly by not reading the other novels, but I can only take force-feeding for so long.

[electro]

Originally posted by AMD4EVER

http://www.geocities.com/amd_4ever/Files/ACMap.bmp

Can you please repost the map...
the link doesnt work

[AdmKoronis]

Mister Ely, in response, I dont think everyone is like that, i mean slash and burn and kill. Well i play very much like Pravin Lal, concentrating on internal affairs but with a strong army to defend. Most of the time its Miriam or Santiago or Yang who spoil my day and im forced to smash them till they say: oh please mister koronis....i give up...., i hope you can talk to me over MSN messenger, im very anxious to talk to the guy who created this wonderful universe.

[The diplomat]

I just bought Twilight of the Mind yesterday. I am at the point where Mia kills Yang and takes over the Hive. I am loving it! It is the best book of the 3 so far.

Now I have read a few spoilers, so I know there is a planet buster somewhere. But let me finish it on my own. Don't tell me how it ends exactly.

Did anyone notice that the singularity gun is called a "sin gun". Considering that the University is fighting the Believers, isn't it interesting that his weapon is called a sin gun?

How exactly does a sin gun work? The book says it is a cannon powered by an artificial black hole. There are passages that suggests that it is almost as powerful as a planet buster. Is the black hole just the power source, or does the cannon shoot black holes? I imagined that it shoots a black hole which evaporates on target causing a large planet buster like explosion.

I have to say, wouldn't it be great if the book were made into a super epic movie? There are scenes like the one where the Believers are worshipping and the University drop troops attack, that could be done really well on screen! Of course, some of the nude and sex scenes would have to be cut to avoid a TV-MA rating!

[The diplomat]

I finished the book. wow. what a read! It is brilliant and horrific at the same time. The whole story is so thought provoking! I love the ending. In a way, the Journey Room is a sort of technological heaven. So it is an ironic end for the factions considering that they don't believe in the Believers' theology.

The book would make an amazing movie. Just imagine the ending where the camera would move across the torn, devastated, utterly destroyed and lifeless planet, and then the camera would move down the corridor into the mountain and into the Journey Room to reveal the faction leaders motionless in cryocells with Deirdre's little tree sitting the corner. The End. Now that would be a powerful ending to see on screen!

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by The diplomat
Now I have read a few spoilers, so I know there is a planet buster somewhere. But let me finish it on my own. Don't tell me how it ends exactly.

And you just told me how it ends. Typing "Spoilers Caution" or something akin would have been a form of courtsey.

Ah well at least I can narrow my reading list by a bit.