Sunspots and Attrocities

[Ned]

I know many of us gleefully nerve staple everything in sight during sunspot activity (normally while pop booming). Recently, sunspot activity hit right in the middle of my world conquest. I of course nerve stapled all newly conquered bases (and I had the Cloning Vats to boot.) Coming out of the sunspot activity, all factions from whom I took bases and then nerve stapled their citizens essentially accused me of attrocities, etc., and would not surrender. When I had the council vote me as a Diplomatic Victor, these same factions revolted.

Apparently then, the AI still treats captured bases as its own bases for attrocity purposes. If you nerve staple a captured base, you have an enemy that will not surrender.

Thus, one should pause and consider whether you really want to wipe this particular faction out before nerve stapling a captured base, because once you do, that faction will never surrender.

Ned

[Wiglaf]

The AI regards captured citizens its own. A captured Spartan city would be full of Spartans..nerve stapling the population would then be quite offensive, natuarally, to Santiago. As you found out, not even sunspot activity can shield that type of atrocity.

[EtheMind]

This is probably a terrible thing to say. But I never really understood why nerve stapling is atrocity ...I mean sure it makes subjects act like in Orwell's 1984...but...my goverment knows absolutely nothing about nerve stapling

Atrocities shouldn't count in council during sun spots I'm pretty sure Nerve gassing doesn't...not that my gov would've ever used such a horrible tool of offense ...

[big_canuk]

A faction to which we commit an attrocity, always remembers that attrocity, be it nerve stapling, gas, or whatever. Sunspots only prevent other factions from finding out and the loss of trade income. AFAIK, we don't get ecodamage from gassing during sunspots either.

[Ned]

big-c, Yeah, I learned that the hard way. I really like to get submissives so that I can reliably give them conquered bases and tech. In this game, I had one pact mate, Domai, that stayed faithful the whole game, even though after the revolt of the gang of four, he refused to talk to me again. (That was a real pain b/c I had to keep dozens of captured base I would otherwise had given him.) However, I never did get any other faction to surrender. Conquest was both arduous and tedious. I ended up transcending just before capturing the last AI base.

Had I know this in advance, I would never have nerve stapled captured bases.

BTW, this also explains why the AI once declared WAR after I had taken a base through total thought control. The AI knew that base was his base, but when his unit arrived to find it in my possession, he drew the proper conclusions and declared war.

Ned

[EtheMind]

The AI knew that base was his base, but when his unit arrived to find it in my possession, he drew the proper conclusions and declared war.

So, how does this really work? Total Thought Control is suppose to take over the base without AI having to find out who did it. It also supposedly has no effect on your integrity. I guess only the latter is true? Since it must be of no diffculty to find out who just happened to Thought Control your base?

[Kassiopeia]

I alway thought that Total Thought Control meant that the whole planet would be probed to believe that the base belongs to the prober faction and that it has always belonged to it. That way, the faction shouldn't get mad because it doesn't know the base was their's.

[Peacekeeper]

total thought control is not the same as "traceless subversion" in civ2, it means that there will not be any drones, but it's still a major offence.

[Ned]

I cannot recall what happened precisely under the circumstances described in my previous note, however I believe the total thought controlled base was a "captured" base. If this is true, then its map symbol would have stayed the same as Domai's, the faction from whom I took the base. As well, the drone screen would have said "captured" base.

If anyone actually knows the answer here, it would be helpful. Otherwise, I will run a simple SE test.

Ned

[Blake]

As I understand it Thought Control causes neither an integrity or relations hit. Then again I can recall TC'ing a hive base and a few turns later Yang declaring war, but I wouldn't be TC'ing his bases if our relations were good, so co-incidence is quite possible.

What I believe Thought Control does is make it appear that a revolt happened.

[Method]

back to the atrocities thing

what if you obliterate or nerve staple a captured alien base (the ones you gas that is )? i know atrocities (except PB's) againts them, don't cause sanctions, but technically since all the aliens citizens flee the city, the people you are obliterating are humans. i've never tried this because i was afraid to because of sanctions. they hurt!

[Wiglaf]

I'm pretty sure it would have no effect. Try it out, would you? I rarely play as or with either alien race, so I wouldn't know. If you can, then aliens really seem overpowered at first, but WAY too easy to take down later.

[Ned]

Well I have nerve stapled captured Alien bases. The Alien factions really gets pissed off. But the rest of the humans don't seem to care.
No sanctions.

Ned

[johndmuller]

Backing off and being a bit more general, the various atrocities - most of them count as atrocities for the ED calculation, don't they? Insofar as they do, does it matter whether there are sunspots or not?

[Ned]

Johnd, Using Planetbusters and Techtonic Missiles cause ED. Since I have never eliminated a human base through attrocities, I don't know what effect that has. However, using attrocities on Aliens has no effect on ED. Neither does nerve stapling humans.

Ned