which Secret Project is really useless?

[D4everman]

I'm sure this has come up before but what Secret Projects do you find useless? I mean which ones do you never build or only build just "'cuz"?

I like to play the UoP or sometimes the borgs or the PK's. But mostly the UoP. So the Virtual World is a must have for me most of time. I usually skip over the Merchant Exchange.

I'm also not to crazy about the Cloning Vats. Its only good if you have the Telepathic Matrix and that comes to late in the game. If you can build both of those you're going to win anyway in most cases. I like the Space Elevator because I can then get my troops all over planet and plus its a denial strategy. If the AI gets its I know they'd be a real pain to hold off. But I'd like to hear opinions. Which SP is of least value to you and why?

[Kassiopeia]

Clinical Immortality.
In endgame where you get it +1 talents per base is almost nonexistant, and usually you really have no need for those extra votes.
And Planetary Datalinks of course! If you really benefit from this, TECHSHARE 3, you are so behind in tech that you really can't win.

[Wiglaf]

Re: Useless Secret Projects

Yeah, the Datalinks are bad news. Immortality can be worthwhile for grabbing the diplomatic victory though.

D4, the cloning vats is perhaps one of the more overpowered SP's. Check out the thread somewhere on page 2 (?), it should talk a bit about that.

[Misotu]

If you play UoP and skip the Merchant, then you are not using supply crawlers for energy. If you are crawlering energy, the Merchant is possibly the best project out there.

The Vats is good, but not necessary. It permits you to boom continuously in FM - but any booming faction can use the golden age instead. Or Eudaimonia late-game I suppose, although by then it won't make much difference in terms of outcome. I used to think the Vats were overpowered, but nowadays, in SMAX, I think it's powerful but reasonable. I've won in multi-player games playing against factions with the Vats, so that has altered my view quite a lot.

In single-player games, the Datalinks is probably the most useless, but it can be quite a headache for the opposition in MP. The Bulk Matter thingy is pretty useless - very late, and watch the ecodamage. I only ever build it if I need extra AC score. The Manifold Harmonics are only really useful very late game if a Transcend victory is not permitted.

I agree that Clinical Immortality comes too late to be of much use. But there's one thing about this game - I've revised my opinion of most of the SPs over time. Just when you think they're useless, you get waxed by someone else who knows how to use it

[Ned]

It's probably the way I play, but I find the Datalinks invaluable just to keep it out of the hands of the AI.

Among the early techs, the Command Nexus is not very important.

Among the late SP's the Bulk Matter Transfer SP typically causes more problems than it solves - ED. Ditto, the Singularity Inductor.

Ned

[heretk]

Personally, I think the Merchant Exchange and/or Weather Paradaigm is the most useless. If you don''t build them, it's not the end of the world.

I don't bother to get the Datalinks, unless I am far behind in the tech race. And that doesn't usually happen.

My favorite secret projects are the ones that give you free facilities in all of your bases. Like the Cloudbase Academy or Planetary Energy Grid. You get the most mileage of these IMHO.

[Tikhon]

Vats

I've found the cloning vats to be a drone nightmare with devloping or captured CPU bases (which are always terribly run, no matter how late in the game).

In the early game, I find the Empath Guild a must have, followed by being elected planetary governor. Being able to see everyone comes especially in handy for gauging secret project progress as well as defense.

[WhiteElephants]

I've never been much a fan of the Xenoempathy Dome, though I won't deny it does have its applications. For instance, if you're running a mindworm strategy, and moving through the fungus, but by mid-game doesn't most of the warfare take place in the air anyway? What's plodding along the ground at that point besides your formers and crawlers?

[xeno7667]

The early SP's are really very, very usefull and cheap. I can't see anyone, that is useless. The Merchant Exchange is always underestimated. But if your HQ have build it you can get for every crawlers you use for it an extra energy. And with FM 2. With treefarm you get 4 energy from forest. From forest! Forest with its very low terraforming cost. The profit comes with the time.

[EtheMind]

And Planetary Datalinks of course! If you really benefit from this, TECHSHARE 3, you are so behind in tech that you really can't win.

I've beaten factions who are more than 5 phases ahead of me in technological development. What you need against Neutronium armor is Missile or Chaos with Nerve Gas Pods when playing as Miriam.
It's not the techonoly, but the brains

The Planeraty Datalinks often are among the useless. Not always though. But it's so hard to get them without good tech that if you do get them...you usually don't need them.

Ecological projects are among the most useful or useless. It depends whether you want to go all Green, even in war. But you really need them if you want to conquer the Chiron with its own secret weapons.

The Bulk Matter Transmitter is not a project but a bad joke!

[cbn]

Originally posted by heretk
Personally, I think the Merchant Exchange and/or Weather Paradaigm is the most useless. If you don''t build them, it's not the end of the world.

While neither is the "end of the world", I can't agree that these are the most useless. The Weather Paradigm can be a key part of any builder strategy. I like terraforming faster but the clincher is the ability to perform advanced terraforming functions. Once a few forests are done I will usually get a borehole or two underway so that when restrictions are lifted , WOW.

As for Merchant exchange, I wasn't a big fan for a long while but now I love to stick it in a seaport and just trawl in the energy to a base with all the facilities. Since the effects extend to crawled energy you just rehome a bunch or crawlers/trawlers and watch the energy come pouring in.

As for which are most useless, well it depends on what you are doing. Most of the later ones come too late to make a difference or have no real effect. By the time Clinical Immortality comes around the Drone problems should be a distant memory.

[EtheMind]

Although the Talent effect of Clinical Immortality is not as useful in the end. The 2x vote multiplyer is. If you are aiming for diplomatic victory it's an essential project.
I think in most cases, when playing against AI, that is. The end game projects are most useless. Since you've already won the game in theory. It's the very few first projects that make most difference. Simply because they have time to "affect" for centuries.

[Earwicker]

Merchant Exchange is far from useless, and provides its great benefit for a long, long time. Still, it is frequent that I pass it up in favor of the HGP. It is one of the worst to capture late in the game, because invariably you will lose half its energy to inefficiency.

I don't even build the Datalinks to keep it out of enemy hands (they gang up and trade for techs anyway). Useless to me.

The BMT and Singularity Inductor ought to be cool projects but are huge pains for their ecodamage. So is the Manifold Harmonics (the higher your planet rating, the more it messes you up in ED!?)

Nethack comes too late to be of much use -- if you've been trailing because you can't get through the HSA, this will be too late to save you.

I think the Xeno Dome is quite useful for movement at sea (and pod-popping!) more than anything else. The Pholus Mutagen, however, is generally of questionable worth.

And I'll cast my lot with the fans of the Vats. It can create a mess for Drone control but nothing a few specialists won't solve. As a greenie, it's nice to have the negative effects of Green SE eliminated. Its benefits far outweigh its downsides.

[Ned]

Ouch! So no one really appreciates the Datalinks. Now here is the problem: You conquer one, perhaps two, submissives. You can put them to work for you researching technology if you make sure that they have all your technology just one move prior to their researching their next technology. The next time you call up, they will have the honor of presenting so and so tech to you.

As well, they will have first rate technology to produce the best troops for the fight with the forces of the evil empire, your opponents.

However this strategy is frustrated in part, assuming one submissive, and totally frustrated in the case of two submissives, if, by giving them your tech, you also hand it to the enemy that has the Datalinks. So, you cannot do it. In effect, you have been stripped of one of the major advantages to having submissives in the first place.

The Datalinks is an SP to die for.

Ned

[Lefty Scaevola]

The bulk matter transmitter is just ass. It comes late, and if you finish it it bows you eco damage through the roof. I usualy finish it on the same turn with the ascent to transcendence, building it a a base junior to the AtT so I do not have to listen to any eco pops.