Atrocities

[Mr. President]

I think the idea of puppet regimes and whatnot is really cool! On a related note, has anyone ever had an enemy's base experience severe drone riots so that it defected to you?

It might be interesting if there was more variation in the atrocities; for example, the ability to deport occupied populations, take civilians hostage, or capture enemy soldiers and send them to labor camps. Perhaps the integration of captured bases could be more sophisticated too, to reflect the transition between factions or between military and civilian administration.

The game does pretty well in my opinion in showing how horrible war is (albeit indirectly; nonetheless, I can still feel it when my soldiers get gassed). The only reason I brought up the retaliation thing is that if a real country was the victim of a nuclear attack, it would demand the right to retaliate (and if it was powerful enough, it just might get it).

Does anyone happen to know what Nerve Stapling actually is?

[Solver]

Speaking of Singularity PBs, they tend to be nice. Caretakers started on a small island, had some big bases on it, and some more around it in the sea. With two Singularity PBs, I wiped out 15 bases, and had the victory over them. Look, the AI is too dumb to build satellites. If it ever does, you can easily knock them down. Not the case with humans, though, as they know the value of satellites, and will really get angry at you if you PB them.

[Fitz]

I have a caveat on your last statement. The AI is to dumb to build satelites if you are winning. If you are doing poorly, they will send them up like mad. I have experienced this several times when I have had bad starts or made particularly stupid mistakes in the early game.

I had one game where (as Miriam) Domai was spanking me left and right. I eventually managed to fend off his assualts and set up a decent defensive base in a chokepoint to hold of the next few waves, and set my central bases to produce planetbusters. Three turns before the first one was constructed, he launches an ODP. By the time I had five nukes, he had seven or eight ODPs up (along with 10+ of each of the other satelites). I won that game by cheating (rushing the Ascent with lots crawlers once Domai built the Voice of Planet).

[Black Sunrise]

In my MP game, I am about to teach my other two players exactly how useful PB's are.
My first strike did not finish off the player I need to kill, and since I NEED to wipe out two of his secret projects (cloning vats/cloudbase acadamy), and I know I cant capture/hold either, this is the only option.
So lots of crawlers from my energy and tech cities converge, build a PB in ONE (count it ONE) turn, and my 16 range (which beats the hell out of my nerve choppers) means he kisses his capital and two other cities goodbye.
Thats 30% of his population, and will make the difference between his recovering from this war, and his harrassing me for a while before getting ground to dust.
Indra
ONE TURN!

[Wiglaf]

Does anyone happen to know what Nerve Stapling actually is?

I believe the practice involves "control" of the nerves, etc, making it so you can be forced not to riot. Either that or it's just a very painful procedure that serves as a deterrant. IIRC it's mentioned somewhere in the manual..

Yeah, its the wording really... 'Obliterate Base' just doesn't sound that bad. It's a game after all. No one dies....One nice thing about the Civ-Smac series is they are totally abstracted. The 'people' you deal with are untoucheable leaders...everything else is a unit, oh, except 'drones' and their ilk, which you can't actually attack. It's an interesting impasse. I don't think many people would allow themselves to buy a game that is about real warfare. There always has to be an abstraction. War stinks.

Yeah, I suppose if they named it "slaughter the civilians" and showed them being butchered it would've gotten people upset. Still, the game made it pretty clear to me the idea of the option wasn't just to "erase the base" from the board. You're right, it is an interesting situation.

And ken, that could backfire like you can't imagine. Playing a war videogame isn't a way to teach about the horrors it can cause.

I don't think 'shooters' necessarily make people numb to real violence. If you take a guy out of an arcade and punch him in the nose, he's not going to think it's just a game.

Treasure your intelligence, not many have it, sadly. You'd be suprised what kind of people are out there.

[Kassiopeia]

B Sunrise, that's MEAN! You don't get at least friends by PBing the heck outta them.
Have you built loit's of Psi Sentinels with High Morale and Hypn. Trance? 'cuz you're gonna need them; get ready to be worm raped.
PS. Use only fission PB's, if possible, they wipe out just the base square, not the landscape. If you have to do it, do it the with the more neat way.

[Black Sunrise]

Nah, I already used nerve gas, so everythings gone to hell.
8 years after the war started, and water levels are estimated to rise 2100 meters (more), so far. It would have been worse, but they launched the shade, that slowed it down a touch.
PB should push it over the edge, and make it a waterworld.

Hey, every one of my units is at least commando, so I'm making scout patrols left and right.
Right now, I'm trying damned hard to shake the table hard enough to knock everyone else off, hoping I can stay on.

Weird strategy: Anger Planet, and pray you can survive better than everyone else.
Pirates, Green economy, every infantry unit at least commando (so scores and scores of scouts in every city), and you just use TONS of nerve gas and a PB if you can.
I'll let you know how it works out.

Did I mention that after 8 years of war, I have 994 more years of sanctions coming up?
Indra

[EtheMind]

I was very happy to find out that you could actually obliterate bases. I like variable options and realism even if it makes game more complex or makes some people feel sick, people need to see.
I've only used obliteration techniques once, because it really was the only way to survive...a bit longer. But for the state, the absolute value is, the state...that goes with factions too. We've seen it in history. Of course the definition of state as absolute value only goes with totalitarian system, but you know how it works.

I'm usually an ethical player, go out and have laugh, but I actually like playing without constantly committing atrocities even in cases where such actions would have no real effect. It's inefficient, but it's the right thing to do!

In any case. I'd love to see concentration/labor camps and more variable options in handling of captured population. Now, one thing I wonder. How come a Democratic society with Free Market and highly sensible values obliterate bases without suffering any problems in civil order? And how on earth can't you Planet Bust a target of your choice? These are the fundamental questions I ask from myself whenever playing SMAC...maybe I should try asking Firaxis.

And, Fitz...that's not cheating, it's strategy, even if against the AI.

[mrdynamic]

what tech allows Singularity PBs ? I have not yet noticed them.

[Kassiopeia]

The tech which allows you to get a singularity reactor, which is... *digs out Tech Tree poster from cupboard with dust and all sorts of things coming out at the same time*
Singularity Mechanics, D14.

[Mr. President]

I've heard that gassing Progenitors doesn't carry the same penalties as gassing humans. But do their leaders react in the same way?

[EtheMind]

Atrocities against aliens doesn't count in Planetary Council. So gas them all you like, I certainly do. Nerve Gas give you such an edge against their "supremacy". Also remember that under Sun Spot activity other factions don't notice your atrocities...so if you like it down and dirty...

[Black Sunrise]

Planet still notices.
mmmmm, sea levels rising!
Indra

[Kassiopeia]

i once had sea levels rising 1400 metres. I tried to launch a solar shade, but the council whacked the proposal
the next turn, Santiago wants to melt the polar caps, and the measure passes!. AI was on a suicidal mood that day...

[EtheMind]

Especially when developing factions often don't have Pressure Domes...