Two Faces of Lal? (and AI diplomancy)

[Chowlett]

Originally posted by Lord MJ
My least trustworthy Ally was a custom faction I made, a former faction, Aminah Corp. They sneak attacked me while our pact of Brotherhood was still in effect!

Is this another example of the AI cheating? AFAIK, humans can't attack while in Pact, with the exception of probes and possibly artillery. We'd have to cancel to Treaty first, which would remove all units from the territory

[Earwicker]

Originally posted by TKG
i didn't know that pet factions could renounce the pact. what happened to "I surrender oh mighty (insert leader name here). but if you let me live in peace i shall give all my energy and share with you all of my technological data and shall never trouble you again."(exact wording not known)

note the "shall never trouble you again" part.

If somebody probes your submissive and successfully frames you, there is a good chance they will cancel pact then attack you. Big PIA. Having seen this one too many times, I keep submissives around only as commerce partners and nothing more.

I've also noticed in some SMAX games that it can be darned hard to get opposing factions to submit - despite friendly SE choices and being on their last empty base, they'll stil hurl insults in my face. MAybe they all just reallllllly hate Morgan. To the Sphere, then (he says with a slightly heavy heart).

[Ned]

Earwicker, Ah ha! So that's it! Probing! But, even with probing, I am willing to bet that the submissive still will not revolt if his mood meter is in the blue. Both times a submissive has revolted on me, the meter was yellow or red.

I have also had yellow or red submissives revolt after a diplomatic victory.

So, the best course of action, even with submissives, is to keep them in the blue.

As to the other factor, getting them to submit, I don't have a reliable theory. However I have observed the following: factions with powerful pact brother will normally not submit easily, if at all. But as soon as one of the allies submits, the others may as well, whether or not you have troops near their cities.

[Darkstar]

My experience has been that the AI is just biding it's time until it can stab you in the back, no matter how BLUE and how MAGNANIMOUS their mood. I've have pact brothers and sisters, with nice blue bio scans and in GREAT moods, switch alliegences and combine against me, despite treating them wonderfully.

I love a surrendered faction. It is rare for them to turn on you, but they will. So beware to those that think they can't or won't. The fastest way to get them to turn on you? Make them #2, with you at #1. I've been framed hundreds of times by our enemies, and that will less likely have your submissives turn on you then building them up yourself, giving them the GOOD tech and units.

[knowhow2]

A funny thing this probing.... if you probe your submissive (pet) nothing happens, if someone else frames you, THEN they renounce pact... stupid system!

I just finished a game resently and during that game the following happened: playing morgan I had santiago as my pet and miriam as my pactmate... then as both where above me on the might chart - miriam probe santiago and framed me! and suddenly my pet renounce the pact and declared vendetta against me and miriam step forwards to help me against her!!!

talk about playing two sides.....