Manifold Harmonics

[Cosmic]

Was wondering how you guys deal with the SP Manifold Harmonics. Late in the game, with at least +3 PLANET rating you get 3Nutrients/4Minerals/5Energy per square. These are nice numbers, but what do you do about the +4mineral per square? In my games all that mineral causes too much pollution and the planet start attacking me and sea levels start to increase, even with all those Tree Farms, Hybrid Forests, Temple of Planet…Isnt that funny that a SP to create HARMONY in fact create HAVOC?
Any advice? Am I missing something?

[Flubber]

Use specialists-- reducing your mineral output
scrap and rebuild some of the cheaper ecodamage facilities to increase your clean mineral limit

and for the pops and worms, build artillery and a few empath rovers

[RX2000]

What exactly are the "ecodamage" facilities? Genjack, Quantum Converter, and Nano Factory I would presume?

[livid imp]

I think the thought was that by that point in the game you wouldn't have a lot of fungus still around so the eco damage wouldn't be a problem. But much like many things in SMAC, they never counted on how creative and persistant players are.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by RX2000
What exactly are the "ecodamage" facilities? Genjack, Quantum Converter, and Nano Factory I would presume?

No I meant the opposite-- the facilities that reduce ecodamage by increasing the number of "clean minerals" -- that is the niumber of minerals a base can produce before triggering any ecodamage. The ecodamage facilities include treefarms, hybrid forests, centauri preserves and temples of planet. Each of these you BUILD after the first fungal pop will increase your ecodamage limit by one for EVERY base, aside from the effects they have in a particular base.

I forget the beginning mineral limit but I think its something like 16. If you allow 2 fungal pops, ( each pop increases the limits by one as well) and then have 20 bases each with a treefarm and hybrid forest, your limit will be 58 clean minerals per base. Add a centauri preserve and then you are up to 78 clean minerals

I know some players will build and scrap centauri preserves to add to their clean mineral limit-- Remember -- the effect is cumulative for ALL such facilities you ever built AFTER your first fungal pop-- The facilities need not continue to exist. Using the build and scrap method you can get to ridiculously high mineral production without ANY ecodamage from this source

[Commy]

I see your point, Cosmic, and it is very unfortunate. Defeats the whole purpose of the Manifold Harmonics, almost. As for me, with a free market, that idea is screwed. I use Hybrid Forests. But, to answer your question, whoever started this thread, it really doesn't matter with ecodamage, because you use fungus, so fungus pops are almost good, you can capture the mindworms, and use them as military or disband them for minerals, and your planet rating should be high enough to give you a psi combat advantage. If you build Neural Amplifier and Dream Twister, your psi combat should be a breeze.

[Cosmic]

Hi Commy, I understand your point, but one of the problems with the ecodamage is that if you have +4 mineral per square using all the 20 squares around the city, you produce a lot of pollution and sea levels start to increase from 200meters to 2000 in 20 years. And I dont have city improvements like genejack factories because they turn things even worse!

I´ll try what Flubber said, about building improvements like temples AFTER fungal pops. My problems with pollution using that SP aren´t only practical, but they affect my playing because I like to roleplay. Can you imagine the Gaian Faction using Green Economy and causing two times more pollution in the planet than Morgan that uses Free Market? Funny but its true!

Again, I thank everyone for the hints

[Skanky Burns]

Just don't forget to force a >pop< as early as you can, before even tree farms if you can manage it. You want to get your clean limit up as high as possible.

[livid imp]

I'd like to see this SP reset to an early tech and give a more moderate bonus like this:

Planet Effect
+1 +1 Nut
+2 +1 Nut, +1 Energy
+3 +1 Nut, +1 Min, +1 Energy

Or something similiar.

In the early game, this would be a SP worth fighting for and would give an alternative to always running FM

[Cosmic]

WHAT? NO POLLUTION HERE???

HMMMMM I LIKED IT!!!!!!

[RX2000]

Yea, good thing pollution isnt based on energy.

[GeoModder]

You could force MW's to come to you then and try to capture them when approaching. Let your future disciples flock to you

[Patashu]

I turned off global warming because I always ended up producing enough to set it off, and I hated it. However, since I have SMAX, fungus pops are still annoying as they spawn spore launchers, which are unable to suicide themselves apon a trance former/defender.

[Illuminatus]

I see that there are a lot of Gaians on your planet Cosmic.

[Cosmic]

Yeah Obstructor, thats mainly because I was playing that game only to test what Flubber said about scrap and rebuild Centauri Preserves to minimize pollution.

Now I know it works, I started another game with then again with other factions and the result was the same. And besides that, I like the Gaians, are one of my favourite factions!