Why are Alien Factions so Weak?

[knowhow2]

I don't you what you people out there thinks but I think the Aliens Factions are to weak. Okey, maybe they get a better start than humans, but they seldom build SP before you besides from maybe the first 3-4 ones. And like the other AI factions just plain stupid from time to time. I want more challenge!

For the record: I play mostly on the transcend and wins most of time, with or without alien factions.

[cbn]

For a challenge in single player, try any number of the scenarios or challenges that are around. Another way is to self handicap-- My SP games now are all random faction, double blind, transcend, random map and I do not permit myself to mind control enemy bases and units. I have also tinkered with playing without crawlers but find it somewhat unnatural. Of course for the ultimate challenge you can enjoy multiplayer such as our current game (perhaps I will get crushed but its fun to start the game thinking that there is a reasonable opportunity you might lose).

As to the Aliens, I believe that thay are rightfully excluded from most MP games since the early start can be a killer. The extra pod and free rec tanks alone are huge, let alone the ogre. I agree that the AI does not seem to play them particularly well but I think the true test of an alien faction is how they would fare under the control of a good human player. I believe the huge start and advantages given the aliens would be overwhelming in a MP game.

Aliens as a weak faction -- not really
AI as Actually Inept -- that I can accept

[knowhow2]

Maybe I didn't made myself clear. I didn't mean that there isn't ANY scenarios that wouldn't be a challenge. What I meant was that I am disappointed with how badly the AI performs despite this gigantic advantage at start. Maybe you could edit it so they could be even more powerful?

Any advise, anyone?

cbn, surely I am not that good a player when it comes to facing the unpredictable humans such as you (assuming that you are human). The AI always stop developing once you reach a certain point. Is there anyone who actually seen the AI win a AT victory?

[Solver]

There are several things to do for better challenge. First, play MP instead of SP, as humans aren't predictable. Second, just design some superior factions. Or, if you make the Alien factions immune to the Free Market penalty, that would make them much more powerful. That lets you run Free Market for all of the game, not having those terrible additional drones, and still raking in terrific amounts of energy, letting them rush buy and subvert easily. I think that the immunity to FM penalties is one of the best things you can give a faction.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

[It'sLikeThat]

wow. are we playing the same game here? cause iirc, most games i've played with aliens, marr always ics across the entire equator, and missile all opposition to death.

and that was only in librarian level

[Basil]

I know exactly what you mean, Knowhow2. In my first transcend SP game, the Usurpers, Caretakers, Morgans, and Believers were all on the southern continent while I (the Gaians) was alone on the northern continent (although Santiago tried to invade it from her island after a while). The Usurpers conquered the Caretakers while the Believers conquered the Morgans, then the Usurpers conquered almost all of the Believer bases except for a couple of tiny ocean bases. At their peak the Usurpers had 60+ bases, 55 techs, and 11-12 secret projects, including the Cloning Vats, and I was thinking that I was really in trouble. Then they just completely stalled, and I walked away with the game.

The trouble was (I figured out after the fact), that they were running fundy/planned. The fundy looks like it will slow down their research, but it's the planned that's the real killer - it means their efficiency is
-2. Many of those 60 bases were losing *all* their energy to inefficiency.

So the first thing I'd recommend doing to make the AI play the aliens less badly is to give them (both factions) Impunity to Planned. (This will look like ", IMPUNITY, Planned" in your usurper.txt and caretake.txt files.) That will mean they can run Planned and still have a 0 efficiency, which will help them in the mid-game. Impunity to Free Market is an excellent idea for factions like the Drones and the Angels, but it doesn't help with the aliens, because the aliens' Agenda of Planned means that they will never run Free Market.

The Usurpers already have 8 specials, which is the maximum a faction can have, so you will have to get rid of one of the existing specials to make room for the impunity.

[Blake]

Making aleins impunity to planed is a good idea!, it wouldn't increase there early game strength much but would keep them competitive longer. H'mniee should use green in favour of planned I think.

Something to drop would be there damn +25% bonus to attack/defense. Particulary because they also apply to Psi and PROBE combat. Unbalances the whole native warfare stuff imo.

I'm also trying to work out how to stop them using fundie, personally I would prefer if they used frontier (Marr) and Demo (H'mniee)

[vee4473]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist it any longer...Is english a second language for some of those who post here? Does anyone even try to put together an understandable sentence? Perhaps proof reading a post? I mean, really...

[Blake]

Hmmmmm. Didn't pay attention in english, and now it's coming back to haunt me!!! nooooooo!

Seriously, if it's important post I proof read it. If not, not. And if my spelling is an Atrocity then perhaps you should ask the UN to invoke 'sanctions'! Ha ha ha!

[Solver]

Marr is good, if not starting on a small continent.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

[knowhow2]

vee4473: "Lund, Sweden" what does that tell you, or maybe you re just another average american. "Sweden? Is it in Texas?"

[Solver]

You could still change the alien agenda to Market.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

[Lord Maxwell]

It's not such a huge surprise that the AI is pretty weak, it wasn't exactly revolutionary when it arrived on the market, and now it has a few years on it.

But next time you want to enjoy a civ game for a long time, never visit Apolyton. Before I started reading these forums I occasionally lost a librarian game, these days I don't lose normal transcend games. (And have completed a few, but far from all, of the really hard scenarios that the wicked people here think up.) I figure that I would have become better even without reading Apolyton, but I don't think I would be even close to the level of skill that I have today without it.

The AI doesn't really search for optimal solutions, it has too little time, too bad algorithms, and almost all it does is invoking premade scripts.

The worst part is that it terraforms like a drunken monkey, totally killing it's own production. Then to add insult to injury it builds so many troops that the city has no mineral income any more. And then it doesn't understand the joys of clean reactors...

[Blake]

Give AI's free clean reactors, free Tree Farms (with pre-req), free fusion labs (with pre-req) and on transcend they should almost give a human player a challenge, main problem with AI is they don't build enough infrastructure and they eat up their minerals with support. And the AI wont have too much early game crushing power because they are drip-fed advantages over the game, rather than getting a massive starting advantage.

And seeing AI's don't research the neural amp tech line much, maybe move clean to superconductor, OR, just start the buggers with Bio-engineering. (nightmares about bases with 150 garrisons) OR just share the BE tech freely once you get it.

[vee4473]

Hey "knowhow2"...

I wasn't refering to you that much... I would have thought that it was obvious that I was refering to those who should have a better grasp at how to put together a decent sentence in the english language. I was refering more to "its like that" from san francisco, and also to many, many other posts in other threads...which i'm sure other people have noticed as well if they cruise these forums enough. It was just something I felt like pointing out...sorry. (Although, maybe everybody uses some secret Alpha Centauri code language that I don't fully understand...my codebook hasn't arrived yet.)

And, by the way, why must you insult and put me down? Why?? Do you think the average American is stupid? and doesn't know where Sweden is? I love the way most of the world criticizes and thinks americans are rude and self-centered, yet YOU attacked ME because I dared to post an opinion.
Come on now. Surely we can speak on a more mature level.

Please do not insult me as an American. I apologize if I angered you with my post.
I hope you understand if I ask for an apology for being called a stupid American. And if you choose not to apologize and attack me again instead, that's fine too...your colors are shining bright. I hope you're hostility doesn't represent the average Swedish citizen. I'm sure it doesn't.