Habitation Domes

[Morganstern]

Normally, when I get close to Habitation Domes (B10) in the Research queue, playing blind research, I'm pretty close to the end game, am fairly dominant but have some research and clean-up with the other factions to do, and am itching to expand my base size.

At this point, I normally have orbital improvements and/or the SP that allows base growth every year (not at my game computer-can't remember the name). Nearly half of my bases are at the maximum size permitted after Habitation Complex for the faction I'm playing. Yet the AI consistently denies me this research advance, no matter what I do (even setting the Build preference exclusively). I'll even get beyond the requirements for this advance, yet the Hab Dome will not come up until I'm into level 11, 12 or higher on all the other research categories. This happens every time! It seems like a strained and unnatural means for balancing the game, and departs from the normal appearance of fair play (more or less) in the game - hence it's an annoyance.

Anyone else get this, and is there anything that can be done about it? I don't want to forego blind research, because other than this glitch, I tend to like that option.

------------------

[cbn]

I have never noticed this particular tendency but I now always play double blind so it would not be as noticeable. I have seen posts that indicate that each tech has essentially a ranking in each of the four categories and that the AI will research in seemingly weird ways but actually based on those rankings (somehow totalling the rankings of the 4 categories). It is likely that despite your desire to build the AI sees other techs as more "valueable". Despite the supposed random nature of blind or double-blind research I have noticed some patterns

1. Generally get impact fairly early
2. The boat tech always comes much later than I would like-- often have several 3 level techs before this comes
3. Doctrine Air Power comes early-- This has happened several times where I have D:AP but am missing a couple of 2 level techs and a bunch of 3 levels-- I don't mind this one since I want this tech but it seems more that a coincidence that it is almost always the first tech of that level that I get

4. Industrial Auto and the tree farm/energy restrictions tech seem to me like your experience with the hab complex tech. I just get the sense that the AI doesn't value these techs at all and that somehow the random selection of techs is influenced by this. Sometimes I project a personality on the AI and think it is just trying to frustrate my plans LOL.

I WAS frustratated when I first noticed this but now try to see these quirks as challenges to overcome. It can really bend your mind to figure out what to do with Miriam alone on an island when the dang boat tech won't come OR if you are crawler mad to try to learn to cope without. In your case the frustration is probably in that the delay in getting hab complexes merely serves to drag out your inevitable victory.

[Fitz]

Each tech has a value in each of the four categories. The AI chooses the next discovery from the highest total values of those you have indicated. If you want to research a specific tech, follow this painful process:

Print out the alphax.txt portion that relates to techs. This contains the four values that each tech has in the four categories.

Find every tech you can possibly research from your current techs.

Find the tech you want. Now, try to find a value of the four values, in any combination, that the next tech you want has the highest combination.

A brief example:

Tech Build Conquer Explore Discover
Tree Farms 3 0 3 1
Doctrine: AP 0 3 4 1
Silksteel alloys 4 3 0 1

Now, to get D: AP, you specify Explore.
To get Silksteel, you specify Build.
To get Tree Farms, you specify Build & Explore.

Sometimes you cannot find a combination that places the tech you want (out of those available) as the highest value. You just have to settle for another, and hope the next round will give you a high combination for the tech you want.

I once figured this for every tech I wanted through Tree Farms on Blind. Unfortuanely, every time I play a trade or pod gives me a tech I wasn't expecting and throws the plan off.

All in all, not really worth it unless you are an extreme micromanager, and you might as well play non-blind.

I did, however, discover WHY it is so hard to get Tree Farms and Hab Domes. The values for some of the techs on the way is NEVER the highest in most combinations until other branches are much further past. Several level 2 & 3 techs on the Tree Farm branch are very hard to get before D:AP , and some of the level 8/9 on the Hab path usually will not come until other branches are at level 12.

[Muzta]

I went to year 2350 with out getting Energy restrictions lifted, is that average?

[AzNtoccata]

That is crazy. Your supposed to have fusion power, maybe even hovertanks by then.

[Skanderbeg]

Morganstern: I have same experience that hab domes (with blind research) come very late, normally around 10 to 20 turns before the end, that restricts final base population to something around 35.

But I have made the experience, that techs given by alien artefacts are just those the Computer normally would deny to You. I had a game where I found 8r-armor from an AA even before silksteel, and in my current game, I got hab domes from an AA very early. My bigger bases had hab domes ready then I got the clone vets :-)

Muzta: In blind research, getting to 2350 without energy restrictions liftet is not usual, but may happen. Normally I get restrictions liftet around 2300, but I had a game where energy restrictions were liftet in 2385! (Won it in 2485, phew!)
Remember that the overall tech rate also depends on the amount of traded techs. If there is peace on Chiron, and a lot of tech trading, restrictions will be liftet early, but if everyone is in vendetta with any other faction, overall tech rate will be low and restriction will be liftet very lat.

[cbn]

Azntoccata

I confess that I agree with Skanderbeg on this one in that energy restrictions lifting can sometimes come quite late in certain circumstances. Try Miraim (first 10 years NO research at all) with pods off, double blind, transcend. Then find yourself alone on a small landmass (nobody comes by and first contact with another faction comes in 2190 or 2200 even though you are terraforming land links out to try to connect to somebody) . The darn computer won't even give you the boat tech and then later lets you research anything but Ind Auto and the energy restrictions one (Enviro Economics??). And the AI factions won't research the key techs either so probing does not get it (but probing does get rid of a lot of the junk the computer would have you research).

Directed research -- I beeline for Ind Auto and EE and if pods are on I'll even save them since I do not want extraneous techs fouling things up. Playing that way restrictions are lifted much much earlier than 2350. I had to give up playing this way since every game was a routine win (SP only). But double-blind -- the computer seems not to value the techs I want most (as Fitz explains) and delays in getting certain key techs mean that you are delayed in increasing your research rate to get to the other key techs. With a research challenged faction on double blind 2350 sounds pretty decent to attain that tech (again depending on a whole bunch of game factors).

[Morganstern]

Cbn - I've had pretty much the same experience as you with those four techs, although the Tree Farm timing hasn't been too frustrating.

Fitz - I agree that your intriguing solution would raise micromanagement to new heights. Thanks for the insight, at least I'm not imagining things.

Skanderberg - I'm going to try the alien artifacts solution next time around - maybe just save one or two for when I'm in the best position to get Hab Domes.

[Yxklyx]

I agree that Habitation Domes come really late in the game no matter how I research. As for the other techs, it varies from game to game. Sometimes I get Environmental Economics really early and sometimes I'm surprised that I haven't discovered it yet.

[wheathin]

The weights for teh Build techs are just atrocious. They come VERY slowly, unless you set Build as a priority.

I'm playing PK with double-blind research. I have over 55% of each tech type discovered, except Build (about 35%). I have Shard (13) weapons, orbital farms and energy, fusion labs . . . and only PlasmaSteel (3) armor.

Does anyone have any suggestions for making Build techs a bit more attractive to the double-blind selector? Some of the early techs that are pre-reqs to Build 4, Build 5, and Build 6 have B,C,E,D values that are simply too low. It may only require changing one or two values from 3 to 4, or something, to open the Build floodgates, but I'm not really sure where to start.