Fall '00 Challenge - Setup Discussion

[Meister Flo]

Zakharov is too old, Morgan still a nightmare, so its time for a new challenge. Swapping .sav files is the best way to learn ! I could set it up in a few days/ after enough input.
Please discuss faction/opponents to be played. map size, and other starting/allowed winning conditions.

I would argue for the PK's (overall flexibility, high pop.), because they can be played in pretty much any strategy imaginable (i wanna see people using the rumored to exist specialist cities . I'd prefer large map, abundant life, conquest/ transcend/ economic victories. directed research, no random wank. SMAX preferred !

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Flo,

I'ld be in for it.

My suggestion for game settings:

Lal's Ok but not preferable for specializing. Better factions are Miriam and/or Yang as specialization is very former intensive and requires good support to allow the ton o' formers in the early game pre-clean era.

Dif - Transcend

Large world
Average drink
Average rain
Average rockiness
Average native life (abundant is Ok as well but I was supposing an average setup 'cross the board)

Definitely directed research
Pods on or off (no biggie but probably off)
Spoils off
Random events on

Which victory condition are we looking for, Transcend I suppose?

AI factions Human pitted against?
2 - Progenitors
Cyborgs
Data Angels
Yang
Miriam or Santi


Thoughts?

Og

[mark13]

Fantastic!!!! I'd be in 100% for this idea - my vote would be for Lal for the reasons already specified - flexibility.

Vicotry conditions - transcend only (maybe economic) I would have thought, the others would unbalance the challenge too much....

AI factions -

2 Progs, probably Miriam in prefernce to Santiago, for the research penalty, Yang, Roze, and, ummm.... maybe Aki, although the research may be too much of a bonus....

I don't know though, I've never done one of these challenges before, so it would be better if everyone here stes it up while I browse the archives for exactly how these things work....

[big_canuk]

Sounds great. Please send me the save, when its decided. Pk's are fine. Settings sound good. Only addition to add a challenge could be aggresive AI. But, its fine with passive AI too.

[Fitz]

Is it just me, or has everyone neglected to mention what, specifically, the challenge is going to be?

You want a challenge, try this:

Standard map, Average everything except fungus, high native life.

Blind Research,Tech Stag, Spoils off, pods off, agressive AI.

Vicotory: Transcend only.

Human Player: Morgan
Caveat: must run Free Market as soon as available, for the remainder of the game.
Caveat2: You may not gift AI with Tech. Trade for money or tech. Giving in to a demand is the only way they get a freebie.

AIs: Dierde, Cult, Aliens (x2), Pirates, Drones

Fastest Trancend victory wins
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited November 09, 2000).]

[WhiteElephants]

I'm interested as well, but, as Fitz points out, I'm unclear about what the challenge is. Is this just a comparative game?

Anyway, my two cents:

I think random events should be off. If we are attempting to make a comparison it's tuff to factor in luck. Same goes for pods, I'd prefer them off. Definetly Transcend difficulty. Standard map. Why large? Doesn't that give you way too much time to prepare for war? At least on standard the momentum factions actually pose an early threat especially the aliens with their Ogres and bonuses. Average settings across the board though abundant native life would be interesting. Directed research and spoils off. Oh, and Iron Man. I think the other factions should be ones that are opposed to whatever faction is choosen to be played. And I think tech stag would also up the ante.

[mark13]

Fitz:
I don't really think making someone run FM as soon as they can will be much of a challenge. The whole point of comparative challenges is to encourage flexibility, different strategies - imprinting a specific strategy on a game will be counter-productive, IMO. I may be missing the point completely, though....

Standard map sounds good, we don't want to cuddle the human faction too much

I'll let the real experts decide the rest....

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

WE,

If Ironman is selected I'm going to take a pass. Not that I do restarts(such as restart until the pod gives you what you want) as I think that one of the biggest cheats there are but more b/c I don't want to get into a situation where the infamous terran.exe crash causes me issue.

My vote is Ironman off but rely on players good sportsmanship. i.e. no restarts unless the game crashes. Besides Ironman can be easily gotten around if your a dishonest player by multiple saves and restarts.

Everything else everyone suggests I can live with.

However, I would still prefer world size at large 'specially if tech stag. Normal or smaller is too easy for tech gains 'specially if you gain yourself a submissive as is most likely the case in the smallish worlds but I can live with Normal or smaller as well.

Remember the competition here I assume is against the other players records not necessarily 'gainst the AI which is destined to lose .

Og

[Capt Dizle]

since when have standard maps been tougher than huge ones?

[Capt Dizle]

blind research, are u guys nuts? that makes the game a crapshoot...lets just toss a coin instead..(shaking head)

[mark13]

Yeah, I agree with jt that blind research is an absolute no-go, certainly not in a comparative game, anyway.

[big_canuk]

Fitz, WE:

I believe Meister Flo intended a challenge to be a comparative game as in the "Zakarov..." thread from Vel. Everyone is emailed the same starting position. Reporting every 10 turns is kinda nice too!

Meister Flo:

Am I right?

[Helium Pond]

I'm curious about this. How do these things work? Does everybody play off the same .SAV file to start with? And what exactly is the challenge? It seems like there's a desire to keep rules restricting play to a minimum, but also a desire to make the game include specialist cities. Or is it simply everyone takes the same .SAV and we see who does the best with it? How often do people compare and swap their files?

Sounds cool, a real learning experience...

[WhiteElephants]

I've never had the terran exe. crash (knock on wood) so I didn't consider it a problem. I just figured it would be too much work for a dishonest player seeing how they don't want to do the work to play fairly. I would go with Iron Man of in this circumstance.

Jimmy -- I have considered maps larger than standard easier because I tend to focus on building. If a momentum faction is choosen to play then I would recommend a larger map as it complicates your ability to conquer other facions with the logistics involved in building and transporting troops abroad giving other factions a larger time margin to react to and/or prepare for invasion.

In my experience with gaining submissive on standard maps is that they become fairly useless except for the trade increase. Tech stag on a standard size map would increase the research time though I don't know if would be long enough for your tastes or not. You also have to consider that the AI is poor at research as it is. Making the time between research any longer would probably not help them, but hurt them. So, I guess the decision to be made is whether or not we want to try and strongthen the AI or focus more on the players.

Jimmy -- I didn't mean directed research off though I can understand why you thought I put that. Here's another go at it.

Directed research. Spoils of war off.

I'm sure it was the "and" between them that screwed it up. I'd like to remove any degree of chance or luck from the challenge as well just as I stated above. My bad.

[Blunderdog]

Hey, count me in. No Ironman and no random events are my votes, btw.

"I'm not dead yet."