Specialist cities

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Firstly this is obviously a single player posting.

Much has been inferred and written on 100% specialist cities for science purposes. I saw Vel visited here the other day so I thought maybe we could start a general discussion on this particular item. Vel feel free to chime in here. (We need some veterans now that Zso has gone)

All specialist city approach

Pros - Drones can not be made since all citizen are specialists with no workers to turn to drones.
Science and/or Econ is great.
Lab and energy output allowed even under starving siutations

Cons -Energy vs. Science output is dependent on switching specialist types until advent of engineers (fusion).

Loss of production output (minerals) makes the need for facility enhancements from rush buys/disbands same for SPs (crawler support)

I have a dillema but think that the pros and the cons can be reconcield at a cost of compromise through judicious use of crawlers.

In reality I would like to go to this approach to as many cities as possible beyond the central city in the 5 on the dice arrangement. That being said the outer cities will not be in a nutrient surplus mode to supply the interior science city with scads of crawlers carrying nuts.

In, order to accomplish this I am thinking of use of consdensors and farms (to be later upgraded to soil enrichers). By use of 6 squares in this arrangement I can crawler back 24 nuts + 3 for base square supporting a total of 13 population points +1 excess. When soil enrichers come online it will allow a full 16 +1 excess.

Now here's my dillemna, I want my cake and eat it too. Icould either go as a completely science city arrangement or better yet have some utility for the city and get some minerals and energy for all five cities at the cost of having 2 workers in the field for each city. I have two excess squares (8 surround every base) that I would like to put down boreholes and actually have populace work. (I'm assuming all these terraformed things take place after hybrids are built so there is no eco damage to speak of) If I send workers out to the borehole fields I can still have drone issues (not likely with a bunch of thinkers contributing psych but still possible). This would mean a city that has a total of +1 nutrient after populace support, and 13 minerals and energy at its disposal and every other square would be crawlering back nutrients.

Does anyone have any thoughts, aside from the massive former times involved?

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited March 03, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited March 03, 2000).]</font>

[Enigma]

Well I am no expert on this, I really do not think of this strategy because it seems rather impractical. However if you are going to feed the science city, seek out and find nutrient bonuses. Here is something interesting-

Condenser (1) + farm (1) + rainy (2) = 4

correct.

Condenser (1) + farm (1) + rainy (2) + soil enricher (1) = 6

Try it. Those terraform enhancements give you 6 food total.


And here is the biggest anomaly-

condenser,farm,rainy,soil enricher, nutrient bonus can produce TEN food if you use a crawler to carry it to a city.

Try it. Rather interesting how the numbers just do not add up.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

E. Nigma,

Wow that's incredible, I'll have to check it out. By doing so I can cut out another square of crawlered nuts. and add another borehole. (a borehole in terms of energy produced is equal if not better than a specialist 6 energy vs. Engineer 3 + 2 for 5 take into account efficiency loss and call it a draw)

Now the ultimate 16 size city will be generating +1 nutrient 18 minerals and 18 energy and thats before a nutrient special approach.

Of course it's still much easier to shuttle in Nuts from the sea and less former intensive as well but that's more squares worked. 4 max nuts for normal square and 6 with special.

Hmmm....

[Adam_Smith]

I think the main advantage to having a specialist base is so that you can have FM and bombers, helos etc..

Just use punishment spheres. They really are underrated and you can make cities as big as you want.

I think that I might use a specialist base if it fit my needs temporarily, but actually it seems like more trouble than a person would have to go through, and I have never done so.

[Tau Ceti]

Enigma, the condenser/farm/soil enricher/nutrient/rainy combination produces 10 food regardless of whether you you use crawlers or workers. The base displays the 8+ graphic as it is the largest it has, but you still get the full 10.

These additional nutrients are one very good reason to put condensers on nutrient specials. Even before soil enrichers they produce 7.

[BustaMike]

Enigma, the #'s actually do make sense or "add up" as you put it.

Rainy = 2
Farm = 1
Soil Enricher = 1
Nutrient Bonus = 3
Condensor = total x .5 = 3.5

So the computer rounds it down to 10 from 10.5.

The reason your numbers didn't add up is because you were assuming the condensor adds +1 food when in fact it increases nutrients in the square by 50% rounded down.

Ogie,

As far as the specialist city goes, I have never found a use for one. It seems like it just takes too much time to set up.

------------------
"Luck's last match struck in the pouring down wind." - Chris Cornell, "Mindriot"
[This message has been edited by BustaMike (edited March 03, 2000).]

[MichaeltheGreat]

As Morgan, and thereby dependent on Free Market, I use small specialist cities as military bases - crawlers for mineral and resource support, and then base 20-30 units from them. It unclogs support in my other bases, and no damned pacifist peaceniks rioting either.

[Helium Pond]

I thought resource bonuses only added +2 of their type. I could swear it says that somewhere.

I've often wished SMAC had a production analysis button, so you could get it to explain why a given square was producing what it was producing...

[Tau Ceti]

Resource specials are usually +2, but the combinations minerals + mine and nutrients + soil enricher increase it. The jungle complicates things further; Nutrient special + farm + soil enricher + condenser + jungle = 13 nutrients. I have some notes on this, and think I have a formula that explains it. Will check it out when I get home today.

[Kinjiru]

Hey TC thanks for the formula. Got one for sea squares?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Now after gaining some understanding of the whole nutrient equation, the question that begs asking is, "If you own the Monsoon Jungle area doesn't borg spacing make sense in order to maximize populations of near 16 with a minimum of square wastage?" I believe this approach would yield a number of specialist cities in fairly short order.

Again the key is to crawler the nuts back with a minimum of crawlers (5 per city initally then 4 after soil enrichers are online or 3 if you are lucky enough to have nut special). Within 16 turns of pop boom & rush buying necessities of creches, crawlers, & Hab complex you can make a size 16 specialist city,ala instant science or econ. 12 of these would fit nicely in a 8 x 8 grid. Thats 576 base science or econ before any multipliers (before engineers are available then 576 econ and 384 labs and all of this is independent of efficiency loss). The key here is to get the size up ASAP and then one can always go back and fine tune your terraforming and facilites.

[Tau Ceti]

I have not really tested this but I think sea squares are pretty basic; there are no enrichers or condensers, so:

Sea nutrients =

1 basic
+ 2 kelp farm (+ 3 if Aquafarm in city)
+ 2 nutrient special
+ 1 Freshwater sea

Negated by fungus of course. Land nutrients are obviously negated by rockiness and reduced by mines, but nobody ever builds mines in non-rocky terrain anyway, do they?

Edit: Aquafarms only work with kelp farms.
[This message has been edited by Tau Ceti (edited March 07, 2000).]

[Adam_Smith]

Are you guys saying that putting a condensor next to a rainy spot will make 3 food? I'm thinking that condensors only make rainy land out of moist land and moist land out of arid. It's possible that I'm completely wrong about it. Please tell me if I am.

[Tau Ceti]

Using the scenario editor, you can put soil enrichers and condensers on sea squares. If so, they work like in my land formula above (replacing jungle with freshwater sea, square raininess with always 1, and + 1 for farms with + 2 for kelp farms (+ 3 if Aquafarm)). Thus you can get 15 nutrients from a sea square, but not without altering the rules or cheating.

Adam_Smith: A condenser alone on a rainy square will produce 3 nutrients (2 * 1.5). This effect is separate and in addition to increasing the raininess of surrounding squares. But it only multiplies the production in the square it is in, not surrounding ones.

Ogie: Those jungle specialist cities sound very promising. Please let us know how they work out.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Adam,

As Tau indicates a big resounding yes. Condensors will make a rainy worth 3 nuts without taking into account farms (in actuality it will make a moist worth three as it raises moist to rainy and then adds its bonus as well) but only on the square it is situated not on surrounding squares. Whats more important though is that all this can be accomplished BEFORE Gene Splice (nutrient restriction lifting). All it takes is grabbing the Weather Paradigm SP so that you can get the advanced terraforming options.



[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited March 07, 2000).]