When do you build SPs?

[WhiteElephants]

So it's not so much the restrictions lifted as it is the accumulation of a ton of crawlers, eh? I suppose you could always build the crawlers at other bases to suppliment the single high producing bases as well. I believe it is possible, but I still put other units, projects, and facilities above pumping out a bunch of crawlers for a single base particularly probe teams. I don't like other factions knowing my business. I think the reason no one has infiltrated anyone in the games you've got is because it can be difficult and you risk losing your mineral investment to a wandering scout. In the very young games I'm in just looking at the map gives me a good idea of what direction the probes are going to hit me from and I can prepare for that in advance with some of my own probes or a screen of scouts.

[Simpson II]

WE,

I realize it isn't that easy by land, but does no-one build foil probes? They're the first unit I ever designed in Smac, and still one of the most useful. Not cheap, I admit, but IMHO very worthwhile.

[WhiteElephants]

Yeah, foil probes are great, I wonder why there not automatically created in the workshop? I don't think I've ever seen the AI use them either, probably because they're not in the workshop. But anyway, like I was saying, using a probe foil is also an obvious choice as well as Marines to quickly assault a costal base or sea base which makes me shy away from them. Of course, I need a few to put out some probe foils, or whatever, of my own, but those bases will tend to be highly gaurded because of the ease with which they can be taken or probed.

I also think the idea of trying to probe someone else and losing that probe or probes makes me nervous because then I may be short on probes to defend against a counter probe. Maybe I'm too darned cautious?

[Basil]

Well, there is a problem with adding foil probes to the list of default units, and that is, what should the prerequisite tech be? You really should need both Planetary Networks and Doc: Flex, but you can only choose 1 prerequisite tech for a unit. So which do you pick?

The lowest tech which has both Planetary Networks and Doc: Flex as prerequisites is Doc: Initiative, which is the prerequisite for cruisers, which makes probe foils obsolescent. So I've added Probe Cruisers to the default units for my games, but unfortunately they come along a long time after the Probe Foils should have.

[WhiteElephants]

Basil -- I don't know what to do about other than play multiplayer.

What I really wanted to know is how you set up the default designs. I imagine it is something in the workshop that I overlooked, eh? If I don't hear from you I'll just mess with the workshop when I get home.

[Fitz]

You specify the default designs in the alphax.txt file. There is a section that includes them all. I've considered disabling them all because I hate not being able to obsolete them, but I hadn't considered what that does to the AI.

[Simpson II]

WE,

In spite of what is in the strat guide, I have seen most people build quite a few coastal bases. On many maps, consistently building a couple of squares inland will reduce the number of bases you can have drastically. I guess that people would rather loose one or two than limit themselves so much in the first place. I'll build inland if I can, but it isn't a cast-iron rule.

Basil wrote a masterful piece on how to change the basic unit designs in the creation forum. The thread is at http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum13/HTML/000263.html
Btw, do many people build probe cruisers? I've always stuck with my cheaper foil designs. Maybe the extra speed is more important in MP.

[Garth Vader]

I build probe cruisers in SP but haven't had a good naval MP game yet. Put deep radar on them and they make great scouts, since your probes get to be elite much faster than combat naval units.

[RedFred]

Leaping into the debate very late, I'd like to add that you should not depend on a rigid formula for early base development and SP production.

With enough AAs or cash, 2110 or earlier is not unreasonable for starting that all important SP. As long as you are able to complete it by 2120, 2125 at the latest, my belief is that the long term gain of nabbing a key SP early on is worth the developmental setback in one of your cities.

[mark13]

Also nipping into the debate very late, I would argue against the notion that a very early SP is worth the developmental setback in that city. The main reason is that there are 4 or 5 projects available in that part of the game, each of which are very useful. So as long as you do get a secret projects completed by 2140, even if you are second or third to do so, you are guaranteed a secret project, and with it the basic infrastructure to build many more.

[RedFred]

Provided that your ambition was only to nab one of the early important SPs, I'd have to agree with you, mark13. My hope is always to get at least two of the three early biggies, HGP, WP and VW. Maybe even EG as well.

Circumstances vary, however. I've had games that did not make favourable conditions to the building of an SP until after 2150. OTOH, I've had a game where I was able to complete an SP by 2117.

By 2110 you have at least two cities. I try to plant that starting colony pod by 2104, 2106 at the latest. The determining factor on my decision to go ahead with a SP that early is primarily based on anticipated speed to completion. Taking one city "offline" for a big length of time that early in the game will cause you grief.

[Simpson II]

An SP by 2117, eh? God, and I was pleased with having an impact rover in '13! Yeah, if you can do it that quickly then it's not a problem. I prefer to keep my AAs for techs, but the psychological impact of someone building WP by '20 would be worthwhile in itself. What faction did you do that with, the Gaians? The Cult?

[RedFred]

Roze. I had lots of cash and two AAs.