"Donor" bases: pop boom trick

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


If you have Merchant Exchange, Supercollider and Theory of Everything in the same base, it's a good idea to pod-boom that base.

Or you could build crawlers (or trawlers) and rehome them to that base. The crawlers cost three rows like colony pods, but they don't take citizens away from existing bases, nor do they require support. The new specialist would require 2 nutrients as support.

If we have a base with the Merchant Exchange and a Thermocline Transducer, and we're running FM, a trawler will bring in 6 energy, one more than an engineer. Of course, land based energy parks give even more energy, but they require more terraforming time. And if you have your headquarters in this base (as you should), you will lose no energy to inefficiency.

[Kody]

I know that some players did consider it a cheat to exceed hab dome or hab complex limits on the theory that you could avoid a game mechanism but that view never really took hold and the tactic is permitted in all PBEMs AFAIK

It's not permited in the ACDG, as I was disappointed to find out.

If you are a pop boom impaired faction, and have the HGP, you can create an pepetual pod factory out of a size 4 base without using allocating energy to pysch. This is independant of the bureaucracy limit too.

Basically you can drive a size 4 base into golden age by setting two doctors. Say you've gotten to the 9th beaucracy limit. because 2 of your citizens are specialists you can only get 2 b-drones. With some holographic theatre and a tree farm it's possible to overcome those two b-drones.

In the size 4 base set 21 minerals per turn, give +2 nutrinents overall, and have the base enter golden age for a turn first. Then set the base to build a colony pod. It will build a colony pod every turn without you having to adjust the specialists anymore (didn't bother to figure out the turn sequence to explain why). This will allow those population boom impaired factions (with HGP) to create a pod every turn no matter how many b-drone warnings they have had.

I would go on more about pop booming, but I've realised all my other strategies on this subject have narrow time frames and are even more situation specific.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Vagabond keep thinking!! Keep trying new things.

In OCC, sometimes during slow times with nothing to build, you can get away with building clean colony pods. If you are in a pop boom phase this can allow you to max out to pre hab dome limits whilst storing a number of pods in base. Once you've built a number of these pods you can set about to adding them to the base thus allowing you to utilize the full 20 squares and potentially add a number of specialists to the mix as well.

Now usually the better approach is to send crawlers out and about but they are after all susceptible to air power pick off and you'll likely not be fielding a decently sized military due to your one and only one build queue limitation. long and short of it is that it is most times better to rely on population for mins/energy then on crawlers/trawlers as they are more secure in OCC games.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Kody


If you are a pop boom impaired faction, and have the HGP, you can create an pepetual pod factory out of a size 4 base without using allocating energy to pysch. This is independant of the bureaucracy limit too.

Basically you can drive a size 4 base into golden age by setting two doctors. Say you've gotten to the 9th beaucracy limit. because 2 of your citizens are specialists you can only get 2 b-drones. With some holographic theatre and a tree farm it's possible to overcome those two b-drones.

In the size 4 base set 21 minerals per turn, give +2 nutrinents overall, and have the base enter golden age for a turn first. Then set the base to build a colony pod. It will build a colony pod every turn without you having to adjust the specialists anymore (didn't bother to figure out the turn sequence to explain why). This will allow those population boom impaired factions (with HGP) to create a pod every turn no matter how many b-drone warnings they have had.

That is a nice trick, especially since it requires no micromanagement once you've set up the base. Of course, it's no match for normal pop-booming, but I see that this strategy could be useful for the Hive.

Originally posted by Kody
I would go on more about pop booming, but I've realised all my other strategies on this subject have narrow time frames and are even more situation specific.

Well, I'd still be interested in hearing some or your tricks. Pop booming is such a big deal in the game, that any tips concerning it would be helpful. Of course, I presume your strategies are Hive- related, but I think the GA tricks could apply to other factions as well.

By the way, are you still in the ACDTG?

[Kody]

I don't know if I should say anything about the other pop booming things, as they are currently in use.

I'm currently still performing consulting for the Hive. I'm hoping if I stay away from the hive long enough, I won't be needed for a critical time consuming role. When I no longer need to be constantly consulted, I'll consider rejoining.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Vagabond keep thinking!! Keep trying new things.

Thanks, I'll try.

In OCC, sometimes during slow times with nothing to build, you can get away with building clean colony pods. If you are in a pop boom phase this can allow you to max out to pre hab dome limits whilst storing a number of pods in base. Once you've built a number of these pods you can set about to adding them to the base thus allowing you to utilize the full 20 squares and potentially add a number of specialists to the mix as well.

Well, it's actually a great idea to stockpile the pods while in a pop boom phase for later overcoming the hab limits. And this could be useful not only for OCC. A well developed base in the middle of the game can usually produces a pod in 1 or 2 turns. And the lost pop point is immediately restored due to the pop boom. That's great.

Now usually the better approach is to send crawlers out and about but they are after all susceptible to air power pick off and you'll likely not be fielding a decently sized military due to your one and only one build queue limitation. long and short of it is that it is most times better to rely on population for mins/energy then on crawlers/trawlers as they are more secure in OCC games.

That is precisely what is bad about crawlers. As soon as Air Power becomes available, there is no way to protect them from the AI, at least not in OCC.

[timotheus4]

I rarely do the democracy/planned/creche thing, but rather just wait until I get the cloning vats.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Minute Mirage
Or you could build crawlers (or trawlers) and rehome them to that base. The crawlers cost three rows like colony pods, but they don't take citizens away from existing bases, nor do they require support. The new specialist would require 2 nutrients as support.

As disscussed above, a huge problem with crawler is that you can't defend them as soon as Air Power becomes available.

Anyway, I prefer to use both pod-booming and crawlers when possible. Crawlers may be more effective short-term, but pod-booming looks more reliable and solid in the long run.

If we have a base with the Merchant Exchange and a Thermocline Transducer, and we're running FM, a trawler will bring in 6 energy, one more than an engineer. Of course, land based energy parks give even more energy, but they require more terraforming time. And if you have your headquarters in this base (as you should), you will lose no energy to inefficiency.

How do you get 6? It's just 2+1(ME)+1(Free Market)=4. Perhaps, on elevations, it's 3+1+1=5. But not 6.

Besides, engineers bring that in irrespective of the social choices.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by timotheus4
I rarely do the democracy/planned/creche thing, but rather just wait until I get the cloning vats.

If you wait for the vats, you've waited much too long, IMO.

Originally posted by The Vagabond As disscussed above, a huge problem with crawler is that you can't defend them as soon as Air Power becomes available.

Anyway, I prefer to use both pod-booming and crawlers when possible. Crawlers may be more effective short-term, but pod-booming looks more reliable and solid in the long run.

Defending the crawlers might be difficult depending on the situation, but you don't need to have them aroung for a long time before they pay for themselves. Besides, you need crawlers for nutrients when you pod boom unless you want to use some of the new citizens as a workers instead of a specialists (inefficient).

Originally posted by The Vagabond How do you get 6? It's just 2+1(ME)+1(Free Market)=4. Perhaps, on elevations, it's 3+1+1=5. But not 6.

Besides, engineers bring that in irrespective of the social choices.

A trawler = a sea crawler.

3 energy for a tidal harness, 1 for the ME, 1 for a Thermocline Transducer (SMAX), 1 for FM. True, you may want to wait for Fusion before you build these, but it's not like you can get Engineers before then anyway. And even if you're not running FM, you get the same 5 energy as with an Engineer, but without the support of 2 nutrients.

[UnityScoutChopper]

I seem to be in the minority here, for me the situation really is:

Why are there hab limits? This is a game mechanism to make hab facilities important (just as in all Civ games, incidentally).
What does pod booming do? At a certain, not tremendeously high cost, it makes this mechanism irrelevant.

To me, it is a loophole that breaks a game mechanism, and using it is an exploit.

But hey... in SP do whatever you want, it's no skin off my back. And in MP as long as we both can agree on the rules, then all exploits are OK as long as we know what's OK and isn't. (Nevertheless, there are standard "forbidden" exploits... I guess the real reason this one isn't is that in the end, it's not THAT powerful.)

USC

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Minute Mirage
A trawler = a sea crawler.

3 energy for a tidal harness, 1 for the ME, 1 for a Thermocline Transducer (SMAX), 1 for FM. True, you may want to wait for Fusion before you build these, but it's not like you can get Engineers before then anyway. And even if you're not running FM, you get the same 5 energy as with an Engineer, but without the support of 2 nutrients.

Oh, I see. Never used trawlers. But defending trawlers should be a hell of a task. You don't need to wait until Air Power for them to become extremely vulnerable. Sea animals usually appear unannounced. I would hate to be rushing them all to safety any time an IoD appears on the horizon. Besides, as trawlers are more expensive than crawlers, losing one is more painful. Perhaps, an ideal place for trawlers would be a closed sea, but you can seldom find such a possibility.

[timotheus4]

Yet somehow I always survive the game without popbooming once.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by timotheus4
Yet somehow I always survive the game without popbooming once.

Do you mean single player? Considering that you can win the game with just one city, I don't find it surprising that you can "survive" the game against the AI without pop booming. Against a pop booming human opponent, I'd say you'd have serious problems.

[Straybow]

Yeah, SP isn't the test of successful strategy.

The only reason this is an issue is because certain factions have altered pop limits (especially Morgan) and because SMAC doesn't have a hard limit on adding pop the way Civ2 limits it to size 8 under any circumstances.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kody
If you are a pop boom impaired faction, and have the HGP, you can create an pepetual pod factory out of a size 4 base without using allocating energy to pysch. This is independant of the bureaucracy limit too.

Basically you can drive a size 4 base into golden age by setting two doctors. Say you've gotten to the 9th beaucracy limit. because 2 of your citizens are specialists you can only get 2 b-drones. With some holographic theatre and a tree farm it's possible to overcome those two b-drones.

I don't understand how that's possible at first sight.
IIRC all psych production beyond double the base size is ignored. This means that a size 4 base can only use 8 psych.
So by psych you can only convert two b-drones over normal drones to two content workers. Add to that the HGP, and you get one talent and one worker. Where does the second talent come from? Am I missing something?

Edit: Never mind. I figured it out myself.