newbie discovers choppers

[Main_Brain]

As a Researcher i also tend to overjump Gatling& missile.
You can reach juicy Space Techs before the AI reaches the Superconductor and then.. you can simply steal them Muhahaha!!

[Lazerus]

I prefer to have them offered to me on a plate in return for not having to deliver their own head on a silver plate.

[Alinestra Covelia]

I think choppers are very overpowered and have taken them out of my games entirely. Something similar has happened to the Cloudbase Academy. The direct result of this is that you can only get 1-1-8 SAM choppers by pod popping, and extensive testing has indicated that these make excellent hood ornaments for the defending base's sentries.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
I think choppers are very overpowered and have taken them out of my games entirely. Something similar has happened to the Cloudbase Academy. The direct result of this is that you can only get 1-1-8 SAM choppers by pod popping, and extensive testing has indicated that these make excellent hood ornaments for the defending base's sentries.

I think removing choppers is a very good idea. I remember a thread here a long time ago where I whined at length about how damnably unrealistic it was to have an inferior flying technology (rotary wing) be so vastly superior to fixed wing aviation.

[Flubber]

The fix would be pretty easy really-- make them a short range aircraft-- change nothing but the range and make that 4 or so

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Flubber
The fix would be pretty easy really-- make them a short range aircraft-- change nothing but the range and make that 4 or so

Wasn't that done in the SNAC mod? Seems to me someone already did that once upon a time and they highly recommended it. Now adays though it has been so ingrained in the spirit of the MP expereince I think it would be like taking away everyone favorite's vice.

[Frankychan]

Nah, if you look at armor in today's world, the chopper is still used as "clean-up" duty. The apache for instance is still one of the primary tank-killers.

[Frankychan]

But nothing beats the "nuke-sub"

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Frankychan
Nah, if you look at armor in today's world, the chopper is still used as "clean-up" duty. The apache for instance is still one of the primary tank-killers.

but the best tool (in the real world) to kill a tank is still another tank. choppers used without ground support in combined arms are very vulnerable - one of the few tactical defeats for the coalition in Op. Iraqi Freedom was an attack by choppers (from the 101st) on Rep Gd armor without adequate ground support.

I suppose you could argue that all modern units have "AA" in game terms.

[Jamski]

I suppose you could argue that all modern units have "AA" in game terms.

Only if you think that modern tanks are twice as good defending against an arial attack than a ground attack.

-Jam

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Jamski


Only if you think that modern tanks are twice as good defending against an arial attack than a ground attack.

-Jam

well not a fixed wing air attack. But if you look at how Iraqi armor was actually able to hold off a chopper attack, and never (AFAIK) held off a US armor attack, I think the case could be made that armor IS able to hold off unaccompanied choppers better than say unaccompanied tanks, or at least tanks accompanied by infantry but without air support (OTOH were there any US armor attacks without air support - i think so, given the fluctuations of the weather) choppers in attack are very vulnerable, more so than tanks attacking tanks. IIUC thats why you want a combined arms attack - keep the enemy tanks from focusing on the choppers, by making them focus on your tanks, then the choppers can swoop in on the opportunities opened up by the land battle.

[Jamski]

I'm not entirely sure how modern tanks would engage a attack by helicopters. Surely not with the main weapon. But how?

-Jam

[lord of the mark]

with machine guns, IIUC. Also accompanying infantry may have handheld SAMS, etc. I'll try to get a link to a news story about the attack, which took place near the Karbala gap.

[lord of the mark]

The New York Times, via "warblogging" (or search Yahoo on "apaches republican guard")


With a hail of small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades, Iraqi forces downed two Apache helicopters today and forced 30 other helicopters in their brigade back to their base.

...

The attack on the helicopters today surprised American Army leaders and may cause them to rethink their military strategy, which relied on the Apaches to destroy Iraq's armored divisions that ring Baghdad.


i presume most of the small arms and all the RPGs was from accompanying infantry, rather than the tanks themselves. I think its standard for a tank to have a MG as well as main weapon, but not sure what angle of elevation is possible.

[Jamski]

Stupid pilots want to stay out of small arms range and use their rockets, eh?

-Jam