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The Psychology of Appeasement

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  • The Psychology of Appeasement

    I just don't understand the way the other teams are treating us right now (MY 2193). They're simply being too nice. Let's see...we've attacked every single faction at least once. The average time in between attacks is about five years. We've broken treaties, asked nicely for them to be restored and promise to never do it again, and then done it again the first chance we got.

    In a way, this game right now is a little like pre-World War II. We are Germany. Morgan is Britain. The Gaians are the U.S--a rising Great Power with a booming population. The Hive is the Soviet Union (thinking of it all in this way, it seems to me that it is even more imperative that we don't attack the Hive or the Gaians. Having threats on two fronts is baaaaaaad. We need to take out the Morganites first). The Data Angels are France--a former Great Power now battered from a previous war which is confined to purely defensive operations (the Maginot line).

    Right now we are being appeased every step of the way. When the Gaian AI automatically declared vendetta when we attacked the Data Angels, the Gaians reinstated the treaty. When we probed Morgan for bioengineering, they reistated a treaty. What can the other teams possibly gain from such measures, in their minds? Are they thinking that, if they can just reach a certain threshhold in development, they will be secure and ready to out-build and out-research us into submission? Or are they quaking in their boots and are just trying to stave off a beating for a little longer? But surely, they know that as long as they operate under this paradigm and do nothing to prepare for a future confrontation (such as institute a militarization plan), they are putting us in a stronger position with each successive retreat on their part.

    Right now for the other teams it must seem to them, "All we want is BioEng, we promise. This will be our last demand! Give us BioEng, or resist and possibly get killed." Then in six turns for the Gaians it will be, "Do not interfere with our liberation of Morgania, who have been threatening and provoking us. That is all we ask. You are too distant for us to even consider attacking. After we liberate Morgania and acquire the lebensraum that we need, there will be everlasting peace and a fulfilling journey towards transcendence for all of us." And if they do reinstate a treaty after that, I'll be flabbergasted. Surely they would figure out that the next thing they could expect from us would be that huge Morgania invasion force showing up on their shores and choose to resist us.

    According to Derrick Jensen, the Jews who participated in the Warsaw Uprising had a higher rate of survival than those who didn't. Operating with this in mind, the other teams should have begun to jointly resist us at least when we attacked the Data Angels, if not earlier. If they had all declared war on us then, I wager they could have taken us out. But after the Morgan invasion, it may be too late.

    So, why are they acting like this? My hypothesis: the no cooperative victory allowed. I believe that this is the number one factor with regards to why they don't band together wholeheartedly at this point. They are still worried about the aftermath of an anti-Sparta Grand Coalition. Each of them wants the other team to take the brunt of a Spartan invasion so that, if the Spartan invasion stalls like they probably hope, and it becomes a bloody stalemate which drains the economies of each side, then the team not involved can race ahead of the warring factions in terms of infrastructure, labs, etc. and snatch up the top spot.

    The problem is, I think they underestimate our capabilities for rapid militarization rapid invasion, and thus taking out an entire faction in the matter of a few turns, leaving the remaining Great Power up a creek without a paddle. It is just as it was with Germany. Britain, the U.S., and the Soviet Union thought that Germany, if it got into a war with France, would wage a slow battle of attrition which would drain the economies and manpower of both nations, allowing the other Great Powers to swoop in and save the day at the most profitable moment. However, Germany crushed France in a matter of months, leaving Britain and especially the Soviet Union freaking out, considering that they were probably the next targets. I predict that, if our invasion of Morgania is successful, then the Gaians will find themselves in this exact same situation.

    But then, in World War II, there was always the U.S. sitting back, ready to jump in and save the day if needed. Perhaps, then, we should watch out for the Hive, as Chairman Yang could play that same role. For instance, when we attack the Morganites, the Gaians, in addition to declaring war on us, could bribe the Hive to attack us as well. Therefore, I suggest that, even after we get our Morgania Invasion force ready in Laconia, we keep on building military units to deal with the Hive and the Gaians down the road, as well as to send reinforcements to Morgania as needed.

    Regardless of how this all plays out, it's an interesting investigation of human psychology and sociology and of the way political entities in the real world interact with each other.
    Civ IV is digital crack. If you are a college student in the middle of the semester, don't touch it with a 10-foot pole. I'm serious.

  • #2
    Judging by the answers to Snoddasmannen's proposal reagarding Planet Busters, I think they all just suffer from enormous ego-bloat.

    The following can be considered a joke if you must: Why not send them into oblivion using the very weapon they would not ban? I mean, what do we really have to loose, except for enemies?

    More to the point (seriously now): After we are done with Morgan there will be only one dangerous enemy left, which is Gaia. Why not make three PBs and just sink them into oblivion in one strike? Do we lack the techs and/or resources to do that in a timely manner? Because, frankly, that would be the only reason I could think of to stop us... (We should actually have the forces to take down Yang at this point, should he try to interfere...)
    Last edited by Modo44; October 31, 2005, 14:57.
    Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

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    • #3
      Morgan abstained in the governor elections. He's really trying hard not to piss us off.
      Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
      Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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      • #4
        And they probably think they're safe too, or they wouldn't be building hab complexes and research hospitals Poor things.

        By the way, a very interesting write-up Zeiter

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
          Poor things.
          More like suicidal.
          Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Modo44

            More like suicidal.
            QFT

            A very interesting analysis though in the OP. Very good WWII illustration!

            From my diplomatic talks with the Gaians, it seemed as if we were pacted but that literally meant squat, as they wanted only what was best for them. I ask for a simple tech trade, they ignore the message. I ask for a tech leapfrogging, they ignore the message. I ask, they ignore. Pact brothers in name only.

            Simply put, the lack of co-op in this game has played right into Spartan hands, and, I hasten to add, has been very well taken. I think that the anti-spartan front should have been formed when the uni was conquered. "Hold on, they've taken down one of the ai. We're not having that! Unleash the hounds!" But no.
            Play hangman.

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            • #7
              And that would have changed the course of history!!

              As you can see, we are woefully weak regarding our defences - principally unarmoured policemen, to quell drones (albeit elites - so with the perimeter defences would be 1 x 1.5 x 2 (would thus need a green impact unit to do damage)

              We relied on continuous offence - alweays needing a target to use our troops capabilities to the best.

              What was interesting was when we sent 2 units to land on Angels territory, and they responded by self-obliterating three (or was it 4) bases rather than see them fall into our hands!!!

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              • #8
                As far as I remember, at this point, we (Gaians) agreed to treaties with Sparta not to appease them, but because we saw no reason not to. We knew the Spartans would attack us sooner or later, if we didn't do it first, and whether we had a treaty or were at vendetta made no difference. We didn't attack the Spartans because we didn't see a way to do significant damage. Despite your claims of thin defenses, your holdings of significance were quite a ways from us.

                Unfortunately, for most of December, I was really out of it, as I was rather sick, and was ignoring a lot. The only other Gaian who was significantly active at the time (IIRC) was binTravkin, who didn't seem able or willing to contribute much time to the turns.
                "Cutlery confused Stalin"
                -BBC news

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                • #9
                  No offense my fellow Spartans, but having looked around forums a bit I can say that the main reason of the Spartan victory was not the amazing skill you displayed but the sad fact you were the only functioning team in the demogame.
                  SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
                  The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw

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                  • #10
                    Ah, but you must understand they did it for a vengeance.
                    He who knows others is wise.
                    He who knows himself is enlightened.
                    -- Lao Tsu

                    SMAC(X) Marsscenario

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Illuminatus
                      No offense my fellow Spartans, but having looked around forums a bit I can say that the main reason of the Spartan victory was not the amazing skill you displayed but the sad fact you were the only functioning team in the demogame.
                      None taken. I for one count collaboration and leadership skills as the most important, anyway.


                      Edited spelling.
                      Last edited by Modo44; March 14, 2006, 07:30.
                      Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

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                      • #12
                        To keep a group functioning,is the greatest skill.
                        Congratulations,Spartans.
                        Best regards,

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                        • #13
                          Long live Sparta!

                          Originally posted by Chaos Theory
                          As far as I remember, at this point, we (Gaians) agreed to treaties with Sparta not to appease them, but because we saw no reason not to. We knew the Spartans would attack us sooner or later, if we didn't do it first, and whether we had a treaty or were at vendetta made no difference.
                          It would have made a psychological difference. Likely we would be less eager to start new wars while we were still at war with others. As others pointed out, for a long time our offensive army was just a small but mobile force. Even if you couldn't build enough forces to invade our corelands, if each faction had just built a few units to harrass our periphery, it would have been enough to throw us off balance and throw us in the defensive. Especially considering that only in the '90s our economy became larger than the Morganic one. So I'd say this game is a good illustration of the importance of perception, in our case making the other factions think that Sparta is powerful, more than it actually was.
                          Last edited by Maniac; March 16, 2006, 10:57.
                          Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                          Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                          • #14
                            I for one count collaboration and leadership skills as the most important, anyway.
                            QFT
                            -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                            -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

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                            • #15
                              My reading of the DA forum indicates that we were interested in maintaining a position as peace broker. I guess without the threat of force or actual force to subdue peacebreakers, it is hard to maintain the peace.

                              Nice thread.
                              Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

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