2155: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

[Googlie]

There are a number of new units coming onstream in 2155 requiring orders, plus some rushes for 2156 unit completion, and fresh builds.

First order of business is for the Mercury to dock in Arcadia University and offload the 2 Hoplites and Scout, and to onload the Castor Horsemen, (already in AU) Warwag & Chiron Knights (in Fort liberty) and Shinsengumi (at the Monolith SW of FL), and sail with the SCC GeneralTacticus as escort, towards Morgan's western seaboard (Mussel Bay in particular).

ETA will be 2159 (possibly after we get missile weaponry from the Peacekeepers, so we may want to rush a prototype in order to upgrade the invasion force - or perhaps just leave them at Impact so that if a Rover is turned by Morgan we haven't given up our best weapons tech)

[Googlie]

Re: the mindworm at MT. I suggest we move the speeder crawler to join the former currently bulding a mine there - it will give some protection for that former which surely is going to be the mindwotrm's next target, and it can convoy that 1 mineral to MT until the mine gets built.

And it'll take 3 turns, but I'd send Rolling Thunder II down towards MT to deal with that mindworm if it doesn't attack the crawler/former combo - and if it does attack, and die, then just generally to patrol the Rio Rojo trying to scare up a mindworm (not stopping at the monoliths it passes, so that if it does get a mindworm to kill it'll upgrade to Commando, then can go Elite at a monolith)

Plus, we found 2 new bases in 2155 - Messena and TwoNuts Strand. Homing Rio Grande's scout to Messena will add a mineral to RG's production (and the cost then to rush its Crypteia would be 18 ec's - but we're not in imminent danger of a visit from a Morgan longstrider, as all 3 are in bases right now) and we should home MT's Hoplite plus Vlad's Hermes to 2NS to free up a rerspective mineral there. It'll cut the rush cost of MT's Cutter to 8 ec's and of Vlad's to 15, if I understand those hurry costs now

Miove the AA through Vladivostok to join the Tomcats planting the forest to its southwest, for a journey to Rio Grande's Network Node. From there it can then move to a base every turn, eliminating the risk of it being disturbed by a rogue mindworm or a Morgan unit

[Maniac]

Re: 2155: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

These are some notes I made while testplaying a 2155 turn with the simulator:

Originally posted by Googlie
First order of business is for the Mercury to dock in Arcadia University and offload the 2 Hoplites and Scout, and to onload the Castor Horsemen, Warwag, Chiron Knights and Shinsengumi, and sail with the SCC GeneralTacticus as escort, towards Morgan's western seaboard (Mussel Bay in particular).

Unless I overlooked a shorter route, the trip from Fort Liberty to Arcadia University is 3 & 1/3 movement points. In other words, 1/3 too long for the two rovers in FL to make it to AU in time to catch the transport. May I therefore suggest that the four rovers board the trannie at Climactic Research? That way there isn't a delay. Of course we would need to make sure our troops can never be seen in ClimRes' base radius. Else Morgan might see us. So perhaps our rovers should wait just outside ClimRes' base radius (the tile east of Fort Liberty), and when the transport is in range, all move down the road to board the Mercury. The Mercury could then with its remaining MPs sail back outside ClimRes' base radius, and the operation could remain secret to the outside world.


Great idea (suggested elsewhere) about waiting until after we capture the PTS to build the Borehole base. That way we'd have three citizens and could work both boreholes and the mine bonus tile almost immediately (provided we have a crawler harvesting some nutrients for that base). If we do this though, hurrying the colony pod might no longer be necessary, as it would only sit there for a few turns doing nothing. Or would we want to build two colony pods in Arcadia University, and let the first colonize the Manifold Nexus?

Oh yeah, in case this wasn't known yet, in the simulator our bases unfortunately don't jump to size 3 after capturing the PTS.
Should we try to build a couple more bases that same year btw, to try to take maximal advantage of the PTS? Downside is of course: the more CPs we'd build, the slower our military build-up would go.


What shall we first build in Twonuts Strand? A former or so, to immediately start terraforming those nutrient boni?

What will Messena build? Also a former?

I've got a question regarding the cruiser transport under production in Gythium Harbour, as I haven't been following that discussion very well: What will be its immediate purpose? Was there gonna be a probe team or crypteia on it? Also Rolling Thunder II? (If so, we'll need to build an extra hoplite to garrison VV.)


FB crawler: if we want to crawler-hurry the cruiser transport in GH, move to (55.19).


What will the Trance speeder supply do now? Move further north to get faster to better harvesting sites, or stay put to take on the next worm assault, and thereby make sure the worm doesn't go attacking for example the former near MT.


What will SC3's new former do? One possibility could be to plant a forest on (55.19), but that's of course just one of many options.


As Arcadia University will have garrison replacements available after the elite hoplites unboard the Mercury, may I suggest moving Skanky's Sileni to a monolith to upgrade to elite?


Worker relocations:

May I suggest to switch the RG crater worker to the river forest that should be planted on (56.10) next year? When Messena works the forest, both energy are lost to inefficiency.

SC4: move 2-2-1 worker to the 2-2-0 crater tile.
SC2: move the 3-1-0 worker to the now free 2-2-1 tile. SC2 needs only one nut surplus to fill its nutrient tanks.
GH: move the two 2-1-0 workers to the 3-1-0 farm and the completed 1-2-2 river forest.


Possible hurry orders:

TH Crypteia: 10c
Messena & Twonuts Strand former (if we'd build that): 20c each
MT Coastal Guard: 8c
VV Coastal Guard: 18c (What will be the immediate purpose of these cruiser btw?)
SC1 Crypteia: 18c
RG Crypteia: 15c (after rehoming of RG hoplites in Messena and Fort Buster - see below)


Unit and support shuffling:

SC2 hoplite moves to GH and rehomes.
GH hoplite moves to SC2 as replacement.
Reason: if the worker relocations suggested above are executed, GH production would be 3. However every mineral above 2 we produce next year will be lost after we'd crawler-hurry the cruiser transport. Therefore this temporary rehoming. After that, I was thinking for the near future: now that GH has a higher production than a few years back, how about rehoming GH's hoplites to other bases, freeing up its minerals?

The SC3 hoplite in SC3 moves to SC4 and rehomes.
A SC4 hoplite goes into the other direction as garrison replacement.
Reason: Twonuts Strand being founded, a support mineral has been freed up in SC4. Time to fill up again in other words, and increase SC3's production.

Rehome the Rio Grande hoplite in Fort Buster to Fort Buster.
Reason: the destroyed former near MT has freed up a support slot in FB.

Question: should we rehome the Tegean scout patrol and AU impact rover (I've lost their names again ) to Fort Liberty? This will give our two most productive Arcadian bases (AU & Tegea) an extra mineral, but of course reduce FL production with 2.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Re: the mindworm at MT. I suggest we move the speeder crawler to join the former currently bulding a mine there - it will give some protection for that former which surely is going to be the mindwotrm's next target, and it can convoy that 1 mineral to MT until the mine gets built.

Sounds good.

And it'll take 3 turns, but I'd send Rolling Thunder II down towards MT to deal with that mindworm if it doesn't attack the crawler/former combo - and if it does attack, and die, then just generally to patrol the Rio Rojo trying to scare up a mindworm (not stopping at the monoliths it passes, so that if it does get a mindworm to kill it'll upgrade to Commando, then can go Elite at a monolith)

Sounds good too.
Then we'll need to build a hoplite to garrison Vladivostok though. In Olympus Academy?

and we should home MT's Hoplite plus Vlad's Hermes to 2NS to free up a rerspective mineral there.

I agree about rehoming one of those two units to Twonuts Strand. However I'm in doubt whether we should rehome both. Problem is that if we rehome both, both free unit support slots in 2NS are already taken. This means if we hurry eg a former (or anything else of course) in 2NS next year, it'll be the third unit and already take away one of 2NS' two minerals. That means Twonuts Strand would be unable to build a second hoplite as garrison, before the base grows to size 2 (in seven years already). Unless of course we hurry 2NS production, but that would be a costly affair, as hurry cost is doubled when less than 10 minerals are accumulated.

[Googlie]

Re: Re: 2155: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

Originally posted by Maniac
Unless I overlooked a shorter route, the trip from Fort Liberty to Arcadia University is 3 & 1/3 movement points. In other words, 1/3 too long for the two rovers in FL to make it to AU in time to catch the transport.

You're right. (I had the map set at a small resolution (xxx) and didn't count the tiles accurately

May I therefore suggest that the four rovers board the trannie at Climactic Research? That way there isn't a delay

And on that journey why doesn't the Mercury take AU's Crypteia onboard just in case we encounter a Morgan gunfoil we can subvert en-route?

Of course we would need to make sure our troops can never be seen in ClimRes' base radius. Else Morgan might see us. So perhaps our rovers should wait just outside ClimRes' base radius (the tile east of Fort Liberty), and when the transport is in range, all move down the road to board the Mercury. The Mercury could then with its remaining MPs sail back outside ClimRes' base radius, and the operation could remain secret to the outside world.

A good plan (but see my pics in the Morgan War thread - as currently planned the Mercury would end its turn in CR) - I guess we don't even want Morgan to know its' there, so we'd add a year by waiting outside then rushing in and out. (But maybe that's not a bad thing anyway, as we prolly need a couple of extra mp'somewhere along therline to detour to avoid seafungus)

Great idea (suggested elsewhere) about waiting until after we capture the PTS to build the Borehole base. That way we'd have three citizens and could work both boreholes and the mine bonus tile almost immediately (provided we have a crawler harvesting some nutrients for that base). If we do this though, hurrying the colony pod might no longer be necessary, as it would only sit there for a few turns doing nothing. Or would we want to build two colony pods in Arcadia University, and let the first colonize the Manifold Nexus?

I'd go that way - send the Hermes back up to Argos to pick up an AU colony pod and a Hoplite (or Crypteia) for Man Nex

Oh yeah, in case this wasn't known yet, in the simulator our bases unfortunately don't jump to size 3 after capturing the PTS.

Even those bases that have 2 surplus nuts? (and did you try for the next turn effect to see if they grew upon opening the turn)

Should we try to build a couple more bases that same year btw, to try to take maximal advantage of the PTS? Downside is of course: the more CPs we'd build, the slower our military build-up would go.

Why not? - use what Morgan thought was a gamebreaker SP against them!!

What shall we first build in Twonuts Strand? A former or so, to immediately start terraforming those nutrient boni?

I'd go with that - it can eventually double-team with the MT former - after upgrading to fungitanks (SFF from Lal) - to clear away some of the fungus between the 2 bases and build a connecting roadr

What will Messena build? Also a former?

As it is a coastal base, and as it has a former tailing it, roadbuilding - how about another naval or transport unit?

I've got a question regarding the cruiser transport under production in Gythium Harbour, as I haven't been following that discussion very well: What will be its immediate purpose? Was there gonna be a probe team or crypteia on it?

It was going to be part of our Western invasion force for the full-scale Morgan invasion. In the meantime it was gonna tagteam with MT's Coastguard cutter to go hunting the Morgan coastline, podpop, maybe intercept and reclaim the Hunter (if indeed we had a Crypteia or longstrider on board) and if we are still in vendetta, just generally scare the **** out of Morgan

[quote]Also Rolling Thunder II? (If so, we'll need to build an extra hoplite to garrison VV.)

I suggested that RT2 go south to deal with MT's mindworm and generally trawl the fungal wall for mindworms and easy credits. That would mean another hoplite in Vlad, though, as you say

FB crawler: if we want to crawler-hurry the cruiser transport in GH, move to (55.19).

(Note, Maniac, that the first of my guests arrives tomorrow, so I should pass over turnplaying responsibility to you for the next couple of months. I have guests from Jan 6 to 16, then a ten day gap, then from 26 to Feb 14, then another ten day gap, then pretty much all through March. It doesn't seem worth it for me to resume during those ten day gaps, (unless you need a break for a turn or two) so why don't you take over till April. I can still do screenies and maps, as I'll always have that 1/2 hour first thing in the morning and last thing at night

What will the Trance speeder supply do now? Move further north to get faster to better harvesting sites, or stay put to take on the next worm assault, and thereby make sure the worm doesn't go attacking for example the former near MT.

I suggest the latter - and it can work the MT mine when completed. We may want to consider building the CDF at MT (it's the most likely base to have another podpopped speeder crawler anyway, from Invincible's endeavours) - unless we want to build that crucial defensive SP well inland where it wouldn't fall to an attack so easily

What will SC3's new former do? One possibility could be to plant a forest on (55.19), but that's of course just one of many options.

You can never go wrong with a forest. But we could start a borehole - or maybe earmark that one for buidling our sensor network?

As Arcadia University will have garrison replacements available after the elite hoplites unboard the Mercury, may I suggest moving Skanky's Sileni to a monolith to upgrade to elite?

Worker relocations:

May I suggest to switch the RG crater worker to the river forest that should be planted on (56.10) next year? When Messena works the forest, both energy are lost to inefficiency.

SC4: move 2-2-1 worker to the 2-2-0 crater tile.
SC2: move the 3-1-0 worker to the now free 2-2-1 tile. SC2 needs only one nut surplus to fill its nutrient tanks.
GH: move the two 2-1-0 workers to the 3-1-0 farm and the completed 1-2-2 river forest.

I always defer to you on worker placement

Possible hurry orders:

TH Crypteia: 10c
Messena & Twonuts Strand former (if we'd build that): 20c each
MT Coastal Guard: 8c
VV Coastal Guard: 18c (What will be the immediate purpose of these cruiser btw?)

MT's to tagteam with the GH Mercury class trannie
VV was earmarked as part of our longer term Eastern Invasion force

SC1 Crypteia: 18c
RG Crypteia: 15c (after rehoming of RG hoplites in Messena and Fort Buster - see below)

Unit and support shuffling:

SC2 hoplite moves to GH and rehomes.
GH hoplite moves to SC2 as replacement.
Reason: if the worker relocations suggested above are executed, GH production would be 3. However every mineral above 2 we produce next year will be lost after we'd crawler-hurry the cruiser transport. Therefore this temporary rehoming. After that, I was thinking for the near future: now that GH has a higher production than a few years back, how about rehoming GH's hoplites to other bases, freeing up its minerals?

The SC3 hoplite in SC3 moves to SC4 and rehomes.
A SC4 hoplite goes into the other direction as garrison replacement.

Reason: Twonuts Strand being founded, a support mineral has been freed up in SC4. Time to fill up again in other words, and increase SC3's production.

Rehome the Rio Grande hoplite in Fort Buster to Fort Buster.
Reason: the destroyed former near MT has freed up a support slot in FB.

Question: should we rehome the Tegean scout patrol and AU impact rover (I've lost their names again ) to Fort Liberty? This will give our two most productive Arcadian bases (AU & Tegea) an extra mineral, but of course reduce FL production with 2.

I like all of the above suggestions

[Modo44]

Re: Re: 2155: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

Originally posted by Maniac
Oh yeah, in case this wasn't known yet, in the simulator our bases unfortunately don't jump to size 3 after capturing the PTS.

I'm a bit rusty, but I remember a fact. Active bases don't change when this project is completed. It affects only new bases.

Originally posted by Maniac
Should we try to build a couple more bases that same year btw, to try to take maximal advantage of the PTS? Downside is of course: the more CPs we'd build, the slower our military build-up would go.

If it doesnt' cause a very big delay, I think the added population is well worth it.

[Snoddasmannen]

Re: Re: Re: 2155: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

Originally posted by Modo44
If it doesnt' cause a very big delay, I think the added population is well worth it.

I'm cautiously optimistic to these plans

It sounds like a great thing, but it's builder-oriented and not very warrior-like. I'm more of a warrior, but of course, we have to be both, and this is a very good builder-opportunity. So it has my full support Let's build some CP's.

[Modo44]

War?

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
It sounds like a great thing, but it's builder-oriented and not very warrior-like.

Bases with 3 population can build many cheap units, or take over upkeep from others. Giving a considerable boost to our unit production, and war effort in general. How is that not war-oriented?

[Maniac]

Re: Re: Re: 2155: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

Originally posted by Googlie
And on that journey why doesn't the Mercury take AU's Crypteia onboard just in case we encounter a Morgan gunfoil we can subvert en-route?

Sure why not. Though what ship do you think we could subvert? IIRC Morgan currently only has one transport foil as naval unit near his west coasts.

I'd go that way - send the Hermes back up to Argos to pick up an AU colony pod and a Hoplite (or Crypteia) for Man Nex

ok

Even those bases that have 2 surplus nuts? (and did you try for the next turn effect to see if they grew upon opening the turn)

Nope, no growth in my sim.

Regarding timing the foundation of some other bases at the same time of capturing the PTS, problem is of course we only have a couple years left before the big event. So unless we cash in our crawlers or do some massive hurrying, I think we'd only be able to build two CPs in time in, besides AU, our two most productive bases: Fort Buster and Olympus Academy. Still together with the new borehole base planned in Arcadia, that would be six extra pops we normally wouldn't have.

If we want to let Olympus Academy build a CP in time though, we can't train a hoplite there to garrison Vladivostok. There aren't any other bases completely free to train one though. The best option I see would be to switch Gythium Harbour to training the hoplite. With some hurrying MY 2156, this shouldn't affect the commissioning schedule for a cruiser transport.

As it [Messena] is a coastal base, and as it has a former tailing it, roadbuilding - how about another naval or transport unit?

Sounds good. Seeing Messena will have a small production and no crawlers near to help, I guess a cheap ship would be best.(?) How about a 2-1-8 laser cruiser (2 rows)? Teamed up with the synthcruiser coming from Vladivostok, they would be able to resist any possible attack from Morganite Gators or Hunter.

Note, Maniac, that the first of my guests arrives tomorrow, so I should pass over turnplaying responsibility to you for the next couple of months.

Sure, I should be able to do so.

[Maniac]

Some further data on the suggested base foundation rush.

Colony pods could be completed in FB and OA MY 2157. This means they'd have only turns to move to their foundation location. Below are some possibilities I see. Still other options of course. What would everyone prefer?

[Modo44]

I like the green, and the yellow one.

Basicall, as far as they can get, before they need to build a base.

[Snoddasmannen]

Blue and yellow looks good to me, let's get those coastal bases up and running

Beware though, there is no guarantee that we'll be able to capture the PTS. We could be setting ourselves up for a big disappointment.

[Maniac]

Just for the record as you both choose two FB options: FB can only build one CP, so it's the blue, yellow OR green option.

[Maniac]

As Googlie asked to take over turnplaying duty, I opened the turn. Yang immediately wanted to contact me. I had to give him Doc:Ini. I told him to pry it from my cold dead fingers if he could. Vendetta of course. If we want to, we could of course legitimately replay under the AI diplomacy rules, and give him Doc:Ini after all.

It is rather coincidential though that he declares war a year after we get trouble with Yang... Could the Morganites have bribed Yang into attacking us? In any case, true or not, we could certainly use it as an argument to justify us invading Morgania.
Perhaps we could also use it as an opportunity to improve relations with Gaia? Inform them (and the Angels?) that the Morganites have set up Yang against us, and that we would like if possible coordinate our military efforts against Yang and Morgan?

Rather a Morganite invasion btw, below is a screenshot of Morgan Mussels. They have strengthened their defences there with a synthmetal skirmisher. They have also placed their supercrawler between Mussels and M Industries (convenient for us to kill ). I think the raid is still executable now, but if they add any more units in the area, it might become more troublesome.

But fortunately the Morganites do not seem to have decided to start a military build-up. They are researching High Energy Chemistry though, and will have it MY 2161. (That is, provided something nasty doesn't happen in between. )

Oh yeah, the University switched their economy to a free market. They'll now get Intellectual Integrity MY 2166 , which does mean of course they'll get it before the Angels.

The Peacekeepers will get Synthetic Fossils Fuels MY 2158, according to the latest estimates.

These are some first impressions after opening the turn. I'll go to bed now... Tomorrow I'm leaving for Gent again, which means I'll play the turn on my laptop instead of the desktop at home. No problem with that, however on my laptop I still can't get on the Spartan website chatroom, even if I turn off my firewall. So perhaps, if we want to have a turnchat, how about holding one on an IRC channel? I'm tomorrow not available though in the morning or late evening (GMT time). Sorry. So preferably I'd prefer one in the afternoon or early evening.

Anyway, in the meanwhile, how do you think we should handle the Vendetta with Yang? On the positive side, we can now steal their techs without restraint. On the negative side, we share a huge border with him, have little defences in the area, and have no idea how many troops he has near us, and where?

[Maniac]

Follow-up post.

I was wondering, we have the Pegasus with a probe very conveniently near a Hive base (in the dark under the cursor). How about stealing a tech with it? This of course means we wouldn't be able to proceed and infiltrate the Gaians, but I guess that wouldn't be such a good idea anyway if we want to become buddies with the Gaians again, with the new interfactional situation...

Also notice a Hive scout patrol is near our CRV impact rover. Eliminate it, or flee away?