Announcement

**Kassiopeia** · October 20, 2004, 00:27

Not really. I'm just worried that the Morgan-Spartan machine would in turn render the game boring, because with the power it could have, the game could be pretty much over for the Angels and Gaians, and they might have little motivation to play a game they have little chance to win. I myself am not here to win, really, mostly because I do not style myself a "winner". In games I often enjoy losing if I lose in a way that I can tell people stories about (Last ditch defences, great gambits, etc.). So I suppose trading "down" technologies to the others wouldn't be a problem for me in terms of personal opinion, but of course I've been always careful not to suggest too disadvantegous deals because of what the others in the Junta might think.

**Googlie** · October 20, 2004, 01:49

Where's jamski when we need him !!

Originally posted by Jamski
I don't amwat to read allt ahtz, But what wis ther quickest way to getot IMOACR WARPIN!?

Thasts wahapt er wanrt! thane we can co anc give the ozerh tofactions a gpod KILIBN!

HEHEHEHE!1

-jam

G

GLIE

**KrysiasKrusader** · October 20, 2004, 03:22

Originally posted by Googlie
It has seemed to me these last few days, as we've dicsussed various trades, pacts, ect, that I'm way out in left field as regards the rest of the Spartan team.

(laugh!)
I thought it was me that was so far off.

Elsewhere I've set out what I think is wrong with the game right now, and I think we need to pause and ask ourselves:

"Why are we playing this game?"

Besides the two reasons you've listed below...

Cause it is pretty darn well designed. Cause it is an excellent strategy game. Cause it has a black backdrop. Cause it has cool eerie background music. Cause the blades turn for every square a helicopter moves. Cause it is the best one, that I know of, where you can play against other human opponents (Anyone know of other strategy games that are in this category? I don't have too much knowledge here.).

Is it just another PBEM except that we make decisions by team concensus? So we are out to win as convincingly as possible as quickly as possible?

Partly. Is it not... Scratch that. I'm only going to be stating the obvious regarding the victory conditions.

Or is it a rich, deep "alternate reality" for us in our mundane everyday lives where we can role play, interact with our own and other team members, and if we win, fine but if we lose, that's fine too, as it's only a game (and the losers can have as much role-play fun as the eventual winners too)

Yes! I don't want to think about real life (though it does interfere).

Maybe it all (for me) harks back to that statement I made in KK's thread (Proud to be a Spartan .........................

[ Googlies original quote thing didn't show up here, and I don't know how to do quotes within quotes. Sorry. You'll have to look at his original post. Krysia's Krusader ]

....................................... but I am getting so frustrated that we're not dealing, or getting into serious discussions with anyone but ourselves.

Your not alone. Now why is this?

Is it because there is a debate with all the members of the Junta over every trade? No. We've made decisions with only a few members on moments notice. We have a diplomatic officer that handles the negotiations. He has the power to cut to the chase, and has in the past.
I'd be looking at the other side of the table. How come it takes so long to get any answer from the opposition? Perhaps we should inquire with them.

We get into serious discussions with ourselves - cause we all care.

Yes, I'm for more openess - how can the others know what we might want/need in trade if they don't know what we have already, or what our plans are, etc

Well. Let's pick one faction and start feeling this angle out. (Looks like it'll be the Morganites.)

Yes I'm all for kickstarting this game into gear with some giveaway techs and commlinks if need be (well, maybenot giveaways, but let's not ask for the moon from factions that aren't any better off than we are)

Hmmm... Must be perception (what looks like something to one person is seen differntly by another). Speaking for myself; I try and consider if a deal would be acceptable to me if I were on the other side of the table. The best deals are what's good for both sides. I haven't proposed anything that I wouldn't accept myself.

Yes, I'm for a deep pact with Morgan, to force the game into a right wing Military-Industrial philosophy battling a left wing Liberal-Anarchist alliance (for want of better labels)

So what did you mean, in the other thread, by that kind of pact being boring? And I haven't noticed where anyone has actually opposed such a pact. For myself; I just don't want to commit till a level 9 technological border, and then break away. I won't explain why here, that's already done in the relevant thread. I'm offering an alternative (which can surely be amended) cause I feel it's better for our faction. But besides yours and mine, we could use a few more opinions on that, no? If the rest of the Junta wants to go till the threshold of habitation domes and orbital insertions; then we shall take this route. Five against one. It's a democracy game (after all).

No, I'm not in favor of "Fortress Sparta" where we huddle within ourselves, jealously guarding our technologies, our commlinks, our Doc Flex tech (which only the Angels and Gaians don't have)

I'm not in favor of giving away an advantage we worked so hard (played well) for. But; Yourself, Kassiopeia, and I, have consented to trading DocFlex in the Angel thread. If you want to wait for Maniacs, Snoddasmannen, and Zeiters approval - or a combination there of, it shouldn't take longer than a day. But also, we have gone ahead and done things in the past without a majority. It depends on who is on line at the time of a decision.

Am I so out-of-step with everyone else?

I don't think so. Probably just perception. Maybe frustrated cause not enough people are participating in the discussions. Or is it because you and I are not agreeing on the terms of the Morgan pact?

Any ways...

It's outlined in another thread. I think it's the Command one. You and Maniac are doing the turn, sometimes Zeiter chips in. Kassiopeia is handling the diplomacy. Snoddasmannen, Zeiter and I throw in our remarks. There's really only six of us at the moment. Shoulden't be that hard to get along.

**Kassiopeia** · October 20, 2004, 04:41

Krysias, Googlie, everyone, do you think I should be taking, hmm, more handle of the smaller decisions? So far I've always waited for the Junta to agree with stuff, but do you think there is a level where I could just go with my own feeling tells me? (Trades etc.) However, do bear in mind that my work is to benefit our own game as much as possible, and our game experts are more capable of judging what we need right now than I am.

**Maniac** · October 20, 2004, 05:42

Re: Am I so out of step with the rest of the Junta?

Originally posted by Googlie
Yes, I'm for more openess - how can the others know what we might want/need in trade if they don't know what we have already, or what our plans are, etc

Perhaps it's just a different impression, but haven't we been relatively open regarding what techs we have? We've offered Morgan an utterly clear shopping list, have IIRC already in the past offered DocFlex & SotHB to the Gaians, and I've in private told GeoModder we're willing to trade everything we have. It's my impression that the other factions seem rather reluctant to give more openness about their research options and what they can offer us.

Yes I'm all for kickstarting this game into gear with some giveaway techs and commlinks if need be (well, maybenot giveaways, but let's not ask for the moon from factions that aren't any better off than we are)

I agree of course we shouldn't ask too high prices. But I don't see either what's the fun in giving the techs away at lower prices than that they're worth, simply because the other factions currently have too little to trade in return.

Also I don't think this game will stall or become boring simply because we don't trade all our techs immediately. While we currently have obtained a strong lead in the power graph over the human factions, that's almost solely based on us having acquired lots of tech (and population, but as soon as someone builds the PTS, the whole power balance will change). However a lead because of techs is a rather hollow and meaningless lead if one doesn't have the minerals to fully use those techs. And on that field - production - we are probably quite a bit behind the other factions: they probably have more crawlers, formers, and unlike us have been able to build secret projects.

So personally I doubt this game would become boring for everyone or lose all enjoyment simply because we pact with Morgan or are a bit reluctant to provide everyone "giveaway" techs & commlinks. Despite our current (imho rather hollow) lead, I still expect a strong and fun challenge with lots of roleplay possibilities in this game.

**Snoddasmannen** · October 20, 2004, 06:33

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Krysias, Googlie, everyone, do you think I should be taking, hmm, more handle of the smaller decisions? So far I've always waited for the Junta to agree with stuff, but do you think there is a level where I could just go with my own feeling tells me? (Trades etc.) However, do bear in mind that my work is to benefit our own game as much as possible, and our game experts are more capable of judging what we need right now than I am.

I think you could act more on your own initiative. You are appointed by the Junta, you should use your authority. I'm sure you will make some mistakes and everybody will always think you should have done something differently, but that just opens up the board for intra-factional plotting and roleplaying

This ties on to my thoughts on the rest of this thread. For me, first and foremost, the fun part of this game is seeing the roleplaying and the social game dynamics. I play board games IRL with my friends every week, and this game is not that much more fun per se. So winning or playing the game perfectly is not the reason I am involved. The fact that we are playing in large heterogenous teams opens up new possibilites, and this is what makes it fun for me.

Throwing that threat at the Gaians for instance, was a lot of fun... I'm sure a lot of you thought it was a bad idea, but I hope it added some color to the game

I also really liked the idea of putting a Morgan observer on our ship, that was creative

So I'm having fun.

Anyway, do you all think there will be more rp once everybody gets commlinks to one another? Should we take initiative to get the others active in the rp-aspect of the game? Some sort of event which invites all the factions to get involved in character?

**Kassiopeia** · October 20, 2004, 06:40

Declaring a war on the Uni should raise a lot of eyebrows and voices. "The Spartan imperialism will see no end until they have enslaved the entire planet!" "The Spartans are going to free the University people used as lab rats and imprison that criminal Zakharov!" etc. etc.

**Snoddasmannen** · October 20, 2004, 08:03

How would we go about announcing such a war to the rest of the world? I suggest an extra edition of the Phalanx and formal messages in all the faction embassy forums.

**Kassiopeia** · October 20, 2004, 08:10

I think I've posted about this somewhere here. Yes, an extra edition of The Phalanx is what I'd do too.

**Googlie** · October 20, 2004, 10:24

Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie's speech to the Junta (verbatin)

My dear Fellow Officers:

Thank you for your support and understanding during this period of self-doubt that I have been experiencing.

As most of you know, I originally joined The Unity Mission clandestinely, with CEO Nwabudike Morgan - I was formerly, on Earth, an executive with Morgan Industries there - but in the confusion surrounding the Unity's break up found myself in the company of our dear leader, Colonel Santiago, and threw in my lot with yourselves, The Spartan Federation.

I obviously retain a strong bond of sympathy with my erstwhile colloeagues that, from time to time, may colour my judgment - indeed I am aware that some of you even style me as The Leader of the Pro-Morgan Wing (much as - as an aside - we refer to my esteemed fellow Officer, Lt. Colonel Maniac, as Leader of the Pro-Gaian Wing.

From time to time I therefore harbour these doubts "are we being fair to the other factions in hoarding technology advances, or in demanding seemingly exorbitant prices for technology transfer to them?"

As so many of you have pointed out in this discussion, we are simply enjoying the fruits of an extremely successful execution of our agreed-upon strategy - indeed revelling in it - and should not be berating ourselves for our current success.

As you rightly say, the road ahead is long and tortuous, and as the other factions, with their ideologies better suited to build on and exploit Planet's rich mineral, nutrient and energy resoiurces as well as harnessing its native wildlife, overtake us economically and scientifically, we will only have our military prowess to fall back on.

For we are an elite faction that loves its "toys" and those technologies that we have obtained from other factions will enable us to produce ever better and more of these "toys".

So you are right. Far from apologizing overtly or covertly to these other faction leaders, we should be reminding them of just how strong we are, by our intransigence in trading vital technologies, and by our willingness 0 and ability - to subjugate others to our philosophy and lifestyle. Hence the imminent invasion of the unethical provost and his scientists.

But as our covert operations agents - and I take pride in those men and women under my command (and grieve the loss of the team that gave their lives to infiltrate the University datalinks) pursue their missions, let us not make theirs a mission in vain, returning with technologies that we already know other factions to have and than are easily attainable by us through targetted trades.

We may not be "Fortress Sparta", nor even strive to be, but we are strong, and have a resolve to spread our ideology throughout Planet. Let us jealously guard what we have that is of great value to the competing ideaologies, and let us profit from their obtaining of such technologies of value. For lesser technologies, let us be noble in spirit and generous of nature so that we will be lloked on with fear, yes, but also with respect, by those in other factions.

Let us go forward, then to Doctrine Initiative, and prepare our University invasion fleet while building the Maritime Control Center. Let us acquire High Energy Chemisitry, and equip our Hoplites with Plasma Armor, to render them more effective. Let us, in turn, acquire Doctrine Loyalty - aye, risking war with the Hive if need be - and proceed to research Intellectual Integrity, and build the Citizens' Defense Force.

Perhaps, then, from that postion of strength, we may be able to dictate terms to other factions, subjugate the University and the Peacekeepers and be in a position to dominate those competing ideologies.

I thank you for your support and understanding, and look forward to our ultimate victory.

**KrysiasKrusader** · October 20, 2004, 15:00

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
I'm just worried that the Morgan-Spartan machine would in turn render the game boring, because with the power it could have, the game could be pretty much over for the Angels and Gaians, and they might have little motivation to play a game they have little chance to win.

And how would the Morganite team feel, should an Angel - Gaian alliance dominate the game? Would they have little motivation to continue?
I'm not mentioning Sparta on purpouse, cause we are survivors. Motivation to carry on... Is a non-issue for us.

**KrysiasKrusader** · October 20, 2004, 15:16

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Krysias, Googlie, everyone, do you think I should be taking, hmm, more handle of the smaller decisions? So far I've always waited for the Junta to agree with stuff, but do you think there is a level where I could just go with my own feeling tells me? (Trades etc.)

To me; this is a non-issue. If I recall correctly, this had already been decided (consented to) a while ago (in another thread somewhere). That's why you're the diplomatic officer.

However, do bear in mind that my work is to benefit our own game as much as possible, and our game experts are more capable of judging what we need right now than I am.

Define an expert. We all have different experience levels, perhaps. Some of us could probably be considered as experts in different areas of the game (technology tree, game mechanics, air to air combat, rule manipulations, etc.) I'm learning a few things, and I'm sure the rest of you are also. We're all learning together from each other. That's one of the reasons "why I'm proud to be a Spartan".

When it comes down to any major policy decision, trade, offer of alliance, etc., you have always asked the Junta for its opinion any way.

**KrysiasKrusader** · October 20, 2004, 15:25

Re: Re: Am I so out of step with the rest of the Junta?

Originally posted by Maniac. KK changes in bold

Also I don't think this game will stall or become boring simply because we don't trade all our techs immediately. While we currently have obtained a strong lead in the power graph over the human factions, that's almost solely based on us having acquired lots of tech (and population, but as soon as someone builds the PTS, the whole power balance will change). However a lead because of techs is a rather hollow and meaningless lead if one doesn't have the minerals to fully use those techs. And on that field - production - we are surely quite a bit behind the other factions: they probably have more crawlers, formers, and unlike us have been able to build secret projects.

They will be building more SP's also.
Our efforts, through shrewd diplomacy, should try and ensure that these SP's will be built at locations that are relatively accesible for us to capture (!!).

Well said. You saved me a lot of typing today!

**KrysiasKrusader** · October 20, 2004, 15:33

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Anyway, do you all think there will be more rp once everybody gets commlinks to one another? Should we take initiative to get the others active in the rp-aspect of the game? Some sort of event which invites all the factions to get involved in character?

To me, I'm indiferent.

I'm more of a strategist than a morale officer.

I love the roleplaying, and get some real laughs from many of the posts in different threads (go look at the recruitement thread outside, for an example). I really like the newspapers that some of the factions are publishing too. However, I don't have the creativity that this requires. The rest of you will have to decide on this.

Announcement

Am I so out of step with the rest of the Junta?

Am I so out of step with the rest of the Junta?

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