Major Policy Shift under consideration

[Kassiopeia]

I'm fine with googlie's drafts, I'll probably make some inconsequential changes when posting to make them sound more like me but otherwise they're OK. Am I to assume we have reached a conclusion wrt our messages to the Gaians and the Data Angels, with the Morganites being the only point of contest?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Well, one reason is to push them EthCalc so that we can tie their hands so that they won't build CDF.

Why not ask a bunch of credits then? 200 was suggested IIRC. We couild for example use those to build a bunch of probes and steal even more tech than we would get by trading.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
When we would probe Zakharov, the reason Googlie stated was so that we could get a more worthwhile tech right away.

But does that reason still hold when we switch target to Yang and intend to trade peacefully with Zak? As Zeiter said, the only important tech Yang has currently is Doctrine: Loyalty. But is it really that important to justify trading techs to other human factions at a for us unfavourable exchange rate (eg anything above 50c)? After all, we have other research priorities we could pursue before acqiuring Doc:Loy. Doctrine: Initiative comes to mind for example. So I don't understand: what's the problem with stealing the basic techs (Biogen, Soc/ProgPsych) from Yang, even if that means we'd get them and Doc:Loy some time later than if we traded for the basic techs?

Ah - and that's a very valid point.

If Zak were the target - and we wnated to be cosy with him, then we'd prolly have just 1 "slapped wrists" probe after which further probes would likely lead to an (unwanted) vendetta.

But with the target switched to Yang, it's likely that the first probe action would lead to vendetta - which is wehere we're heading anyway - so multiples don'y make any difference

So, Maniac, once again you're right (Sometimes I get lost in the minutiae of the trades that I lose sight of the big picture)

Maybe it's just Morgan we should be dealing with, then, if a duopact is the way we are planning to go

[Kassiopeia]

Hmmm, so are we going to trade with the Angels and Gaians before the Elections? I take it that we're not? Assuming we're going duopact. The majority seems, at a glance, to be favouring that.

[Googlie]

That's my read

(although I still think we could maybe get a "license fee" from the Gaians for Ethical Calculus - 20 or 25 ec's per turn for 10 years - plus their agreement not to build the CDF - with a no trade embargo for those 10 years. they must be desperate for it to begin a pop boom)

(and I'll also take it as a "go" next turn to load the AO probe - en route to Minas Tirith - onto Pegasus and head for Great Collective?)

[Googlie]

And we could do the same with the Angels - no tech trades but "license" Ethical Calculus for the same price with the same restrictions

[Kassiopeia]

I'm going to suggest the Gaians and the Angels the sale of EthCalc. For 25 ecs a year for 10 years or a lump sum, a trade embargo of 10 years, agreement not to build CDF. I'll draft a generic message that can be used for both, just swap the faction name.

[Kassiopeia]

I'll post Googlie's response to the_arginine with slight edits to make it jibe better in the Morganite forum.

Should I put in the same posts our careful pact proposition? E.g. the one phrased by me I wrote last night.

[Kassiopeia]

After careful thought the Junta has decided to sell Ethical Calculus to the Gaian Union. The social choices it provides are, we admit, important to you in terms of population and economical growth. There are three terms, however:

- A payment of 250 energy credits split to 10 years of payments, 25 ec a year. The entire sum or a remainder sum (e.g. you've paid us 50 ec over two turns, and can pay 200 on the third) can also be paid in full at any time.
- Your pledge to not build Citizen's Defence Force once you discover Intellectual Integrity (which will be a derivative of our intellectual property, Ethical Calculus). This is paramount.
- A no-trade restriction to third parties, AI or human, of ten years.

What is the opinion of the Gaian Union?

Any sneaky things I could/should add?

[KrysiasKrusader]

Re: Major Policy Shift under consideration

Originally posted by Googlie
So much might hang on this decision that it needs to be fully aired.

Yeah. It does, and I'm not quite convinced by it...

Originally posted by Googlie
This will likely, with hindsight, be regarded as the gamewinner for either ourselves or Morgan

If we take it as deep as I've suggested (to the level-9 techs) ...

Why does it have to go to level 9 techs?
That's pretty deep for a MP game with so many people.
How about till a particular tech? Like PSA Or even AEE?
Then we could see how things have developed in the world, shoud we wish to consider extending the pact.

Originally posted by Googlie
After break-up, we will either try to conquer Morgan (a tough task by then) or else, if we have sustained the AI in a submissive role, try for a diplomatic victory (being declared sepreme leader)

For sure it will be tough, if they're playing their cards right. That's why I'm mentioning the above. You really don't want to lock horns with a builder after the late-middle game.

Originally posted by Googlie
The playing enjoyment of the Angels and the Gaians might be lessened as a result of our joining with Morgan ...

Did they take into consideration the playing enjoyment of the Morganites and Spartans?

Originally posted by Googlie
Question: Do we care?

Answer: Not me

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Ah - and that's a very valid point.

Glad you like it. I sometimes feel bad suggesting something else than what one initially suggested.

Hmmm, so are we going to trade with the Angels and Gaians before the Elections? I take it that we're not?

I'd say to trade them every tech we can trade for a decent price.
Problem is of course:
a) Most likely no one has enough credits to pay for all those juicy techs.
b) Perhaps it's just my impression, but neither does any faction seem willing to disclose what techs they have or are researching, nor do they seem willing to adapt their research to a tech we don't have yet.

[Kassiopeia]

They are probably waiting for the Election so that the market will open up and they can get what they want for as low a price as possible. (apparently time is not an issue.) Can't blame them :|

[Googlie]

Going back to the original faction poll the results were (out of 10) 5 favored a Hybrid style, 4 favored a Momentum style and 1 a Builder style. So I saw that as a mandate for the Junta to consider the type of Morgan deal I suggested in conjunction with some forays against the university

If our target has changed to the Hive, then I feel that we need to get stronger offensively than we currently are.

And I take it that I'm way ahead of our general Junta position as regards how deep we should get with Morgan (of course, as befits the "leader of the Morgan wing of the Junta")

What alternative proposals are being tabled for discussion? (I did see a Morgan pact but to the tech-6 level - Fusion, Orbitals, MMI - that signs off with a best armor of 5 (Photon Wall) and best weapon of 8 (Chaos).

That, to me, has the disadvantage that by that time the other factions will all likely still be in the game and we might - after breaking with Morgan - find ourselves with a 3-front war on our hands

The real question is, I think:

Do we want the fimnal battle for supremacy - however waged - to be us against Morgan or us against the Gaians?

After we have reached concensus on that, the diplomatic path should be easier

[Maniac]

My opinion: I have little experience with longterm PBEM diplomacy, so I'll abstain, or in other words just go with the flow on what everyone else wants.

[Kassiopeia]

Since we've been whining our own share of lack of activity of the Morganites, I decided to finally post a response to the_arginine.

How about their own whine about the treaty commerce bonus income split incurring a loss on them? are they just trying to bluff us?