Current diplomatic situation and future speculation: MY 2141

[Primus Pilus]

I generally agree with Googlie's strategy and strategic forcast. For the record, I NEVER share Map data. Let the other factions spend credits to build boats. Strongly urge SP-Maritime Control Center and tech path to DOC:Air Power. Force Projection is done by Sea/Air and eventually Drop (luv Space Elevator)...In a Diplomacy game, alliances are crucial, but please consider that as soon as we invade Zak/PK, our credibility will go down. I support the tactical outline, but we still must be wary of Yang. We need to time our invasion plans with increased mineral production/formers/crawlers. I leave it to the Junta to decide Base Productions. I will lend my skills to the upcoming battles

[Zeiter]

In a Diplomacy game, alliances are crucial, but please consider that as soon as we invade Zak/PK, our credibility will go down.

Good point. We don't want to be seen as a power-hungry belligerent, although that's somewhat inevitable when we start invading others. We'll have to spin it carefully, and perhaps share the profits of our conquest a little.

[Kassiopeia]

That is why I think we should try to strike up an alliance before we attack, so that we'll have someone to spin it with us and to make it easier to weather the extra heat from the "global community". (I can already see the RP spin - 'Spartan Federation sees Zakharov's brutal and immoral experiments as an active terrorist threat and decides to pre-emptively invade" or somesuch .) If we are to present ourselves as a saviour of sorts, then maybe some concessions might be in order, but I'd rather have us an ally we can give some crap (like small cities of little importance) to. Morganite would be ideal for this, it'd drag them down a bit and force them to tie down their troops to another part of the globe. Spread them out a little.

I could prepare people for the invasion, just moments before we post the turn wherein we declare vendetta, by a special issue of The Phalanx where we throw out to the open "evidence" of all sorts of horrors going on in the labs below University Base. If our infiltration reveals that they have Neural Grafting, all the better!

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
That is why I think we should try to strike up an alliance ............................ then maybe some concessions might be in order, but I'd rather have us an ally we can give some crap (like small cities of little importance) to. Morganite would be ideal for this, it'd drag them down a bit and force them to tie down their troops to another part of the globe. Spread them out a little.

I'm thinking along somewhat similar lines, too, but coming from a different direction

After we meet and dance around a bit with the Angels (how many Angels can dance on a gunbarrel anyway?), and after we infiltrate Zak - and take stock if we want to immediately follow it with a teachsteal, or wait until he researches something juicy, we should think about a leapfrog Pact.

We have a slew of techs that the other 3 don't have, and they have one or two that we don't yet have. Picking one of them to pact with, and having a serious run at co-ordinating research (principally them) and stealing techs (mainly us) might get us up that tech tree fairly rapidly

And Morgan's a good candidate mainly (I think) because our interests interlock quite nicely

We want the CDF (to secure our rear), the MCC (to project our power) and the Neural Amplifier (for the inevitable combat against the Gaians wormy army). And we wouldn't mind having the Cyborg Factory either, for the Bioenhancement Centers that gives to each base. Maybe even the PEG for us would make sense.

I'd say that Morgan wants the Ascetic Virtues (for the +2 pop), perhaps the Longevity Vaccine (as good as the HGP if they run Green), the Supercollider and the Cloning Vats

So I'd argue in favor of (as far as a Morgan pact went) us getting first dibs on the SP's that generate a free facility in every base, because Morgan always has the wealth to build them in those bases where he wants them - we don't really have that luxury of building everywhere

In return, we'll hold off going for the SP's that facilitate population growth and drone control, as well as the research ones.

The trouble with the "no co-operative victory" set up is that we'd have to agree to part company at a time when we were equally strong - them economically and scientifically and we militarily. They'll know that we will try to take them out, and it will be galling for us to have helped strengthen them to the point where they might be able to resist us doing just that. Where that point is I don't know - level 8 or 9 techs maybe (Advanced Spaceflight and shard weapons, Industrial Nanorobotics and the Nano Factory, Sentient Resonance with its R-12 weapons and R-8 armor?)

We're certainlky not going to be able to win an economic victory, nor transcend before the builder factions. We're unlikely to win a 3/4 vote for a diplo victory (unless we subjugate the 3 AI factions, then force the others to keep their hands off while we protect their population growth, particularly the PK's with their double votes)

And maybe that's a fall-back strategy. Go conqueror until the 3 AI's are subservient, and then, together with Morgan take out the Angels and the Gaians, then call for an "El Supremo" vote (has to be after MMI to enable the diplo victory)

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
That is why I think we should try to strike up an alliance before we attack, so that we'll have someone to spin it with us and to make it easier to weather the extra heat from the "global community".

Yes indeed. We are already the most powerful human faction in the game, thanks to trade-whoring with everybody. If we invade and probe the Uni this advantage will be even greater ... The rest of the factions won't stand for it. If this is the state when the rest of the guys meet Morgan, they might well join forces for a quick invasion of us before going on with their regularly scheduled building.

If we are to present ourselves as a saviour of sorts, then maybe some concessions might be in order, but I'd rather have us an ally we can give some crap (like small cities of little importance) to. Morganite would be ideal for this, it'd drag them down a bit and force them to tie down their troops to another part of the globe. Spread them out a little.

I could prepare people for the invasion, just moments before we post the turn wherein we declare vendetta, by a special issue of The Phalanx where we throw out to the open "evidence" of all sorts of horrors going on in the labs below University Base. If our infiltration reveals that they have Neural Grafting, all the better!

Yes, I like that
From an RP perspective it is a lot of fun indeed, but we really need an ally to protect us from a three-front war. I also favor Morgan to this end... Time to start talking to them about this matter?

Yesterday, Snoddasmannen, recently promoted to Captain and senior diplomat to the University, announced that the Uni have chemical weapons capability. In his press release, he also mentioned 'filling the foul streets of University Base with the shattered glass of broken beakers and the heads of the luckier scientists.' Senior members of the Junta had no comments on that statement.

[Kassiopeia]

I'm pretty much ready to start negotiating a pact with the Morganites, but I'd like some comment from Maniac too. So far only three: you, I and Googlie, have agreed with it, and this is a very important decision.

[Googlie]

Yes - I'd like M's opinion as well - particulary as regards my thoughts on it being a "till level 9 technologies, then threafter may the better team win" approach.

Pretty much indicating (the better team) that we'll have removed the Gaians and Angels as contenders by then through our military prowess

(And I'd like KK's and Zeiter's opinions as well, although with 4 of the regular six commenting we would have a "quorum", but it's one of those Game-defining decisions we'll make

[Kassiopeia]

Should I start a poll on it? Would attract some attention.

[Googlie]

Well, wouldn't harm (I see Zeiter has posted a few minutes ago in one of the other threads, so maybe hasn't realized we 're needing his input here

But this is prolly one of those major decisions that do need to be polled - and maybe e-mail the url to the team members who aren't frequenting as much (like didident and Andemagne)

It pretty much determines the direction we take for the next 50 - 60 turns and could be the catalyst for an all-out Angels/Gaians versus Morgan/Sparta war

We shouldn't rush into proposing it (and maybe even hold off even mentioning it to Morgan as a "blue sky skunkworks idea" until we've had as much input as we can

[Maniac]

Question: Would such cooperation involving giving techs to Morgan, even if they got the better end of the deal?

[Googlie]

I'd say so - essentially when we finally split we'd have exactly the same techs - all those at level 9 or below (assuming we go that deep)

I'd even see it as being an integrated armies/airforce/navies co-operation, with perhaps our ships guarding their ports and our aircraft in their bases (all for an energy and research price, of course)

[Zeiter]

Full out pact, eh? I like it. Morgan the builder and Sparta the conqueror would make a perfect match. Although by the time of level 9 techs, won't Morgan be fairly well entrenched? Just as long as you guys think we have a chance of beating a late-game Morgan, I'd say it's an excellent idea.

[Googlie]

well, maybe we don't just willingly let them get the Cloning Vats, otherwise we'd see the diplo victory option go right out of the window

[Zeiter]

Yeah, the Cloning Vats is almost a game-breaker for whoever gets it. If we got it, we could run thought control (which means we'd have +3 police, +2 probe, and +4 morale) for no penalty. Plus the popboom.

This game could be really fun if we get into the stage of aircraft carriers, ballistic missle subs, tachyon fields, satellite wars, hovertanks, etc.

[KrysiasKrusader]

Originally posted by Googlie

...

Morgan

...

But over the longer term the balance shifts dramatically in their favour. There will come a fulcrum point when we no longer can present any threat to them militarily. they will have clean fusion or quantum powered neutronium-armoured garrisons, and will be sheltering behind Perimeter Defences and Tachyon Shields. Even our Elite Fusion shard units will be unable to dent these much. So they will simply hide behind "Fortress Morgan" and Transcend out of our clutches.

Ah, good.
Googlie described what I was trying to say somewhere else (I think it's in the Morgan thread). A little extreme, I think. Cause there's no way I'd let Morgan get that far, but still, a very plausible outcome to allying with them for such a long term.