2141 - Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Here's what I've gleaned from the threads - and am suggesting (in the absence of anything to glean):

Movement Orders

They all sound good to me. But unless I read over them you didn't give suggestions for the two formers on the mineral mines N of OA. What would you suggest to do with those two?
Some possibilities include (after the road is complete) moving a tile east to plant a forest or a sensor array, move to the tile E of SC2 to plant a forest, or move to SC1 and then further proceed to terraform those +1000m rolling&rainy tiles.

[Zeiter]

How about we have one of the formers work on a road to Vladivostok, and the other move onto the same square and begin planting a forest?

[Maniac]

Now I'm home I've had a look at the turn.

Overall everything is looking great of course.
There's a little oddity I've noticed though. Namely that Fort Buster is now working that 1-3-0 minerals tile instead of the 2-2-1 tile. While that is beneficial on the very short term (the next two turns) it means that it will take two years longer for FB to grow to size 2, thus having a 2-2-1 worker less for two years, thus four less minerals.
To reduce the loss to 2 minerals, may I suggest switching the worker back to the 2-2-1 tile MY 2142, speeding up the growth by one turn?

Re: next base (Messen Bay/Rio Grande)

Hmm, one way I could think of to prevent Morgan from infiltrating us at the new base, is not building the base on (53.11), but rather on (54.12), the tile SE of that. Then we could immediately start production on a cheap naval unit like a laser foil. As the base starts with 10 free minerals, and when working the mineral tile would produce 4 minerals (or even 5 if the forest is ready by then), hurrying 6/5 minerals (or 15/13 credits) would be enough to get that foil the next turn. We could then station that foil on tile (52.10), blocking the passage for probe foils to our base, until our probe teams and boy scout currently under production can arrive there.

A probe foil could of course still get through by mind controlling the laser foil, but that would mean war. And would a builder faction really want to risk war for infiltration, knowing full well (unofficially) we have impact weapons?


If we would decide to found the next base inland after all, may I make a suggestion about the yellow dot on the upper Rio Grande? That is located on a river rolling&rainy tile, the only one in the neighbourhood. So if we'd found a base there, we would miss out on one energy. Could I therefore propose, if we build a base around that neighbourhood, to found it one tile to the NE or SE? As the red dots on the edited screenie below?

Edit:

• Vladivostok
• Sector CraterSouth
• Sector CraterWest

Scout patrols? Or Probes (cheaper infantry-chassis Boy Scouts for the 2 inland crater bases perhaps?)

Personally I'd prefer scout patrols for SC3 & SC4, as you could probably guess.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
There's a little oddity I've noticed though. Namely that Fort Buster is now working that 1-3-0 minerals tile instead of the 2-2-1 tile. While that is beneficial on the very short term (the next two turns) it means that it will take two years longer for FB to grow to size 2, thus having a 2-2-1 worker less for two years, thus four less minerals.
To reduce the loss to 2 minerals, may I suggest switching the worker back to the 2-2-1 tile MY 2142, speeding up the growth by one turn?

Will do (I think that I got the sliders and nuts/mins workers distorted when I was verifying KK's numbers re getting Ecol Eng on our own. I couldn't remember where that Fort Buster worker was (and couldn't re-open the original turn to find out) but the 3mins tile gave me the probe team in 4 (exactly) turns versus 5 with the rolling moist tile

Hmm, one way I could think of to prevent Morgan from infiltrating us at the new base, is not building the base on (53.11), but rather on (54.12), the tile SE of that. Then we could immediately start production on a cheap naval unit like a laser foil. As the base starts with 10 free minerals, and when working the mineral tile would produce 4 minerals (or even 5 if the forest is ready by then), hurrying 6/5 minerals (or 15/13 credits) would be enough to get that foil the next turn. We could then station that foil on tile (52.10), blocking the passage for probe foils to our base, until our probe teams and boy scout currently under production can arrive there.

I like that plan. it gets the new base working for us about 3 turns quicker than otherwise, and we can never have enough foils in this game

A probe foil could of course still get through by mind controlling the laser foil, but that would mean war. And would a builder faction really want to risk war for infiltration, knowing full well (unofficially) we have impact weapons?

I agree (also evilly grinning)

If we would decide to found the next base inland after all, may I make a suggestion about the yellow dot on the upper Rio Grande? That is located on a river rolling & rainy tile, the only one in the neighbourhood. So if we'd found a base there, we would miss out on one energy. Could I therefore propose, if we build a base around that neighbourhood, to found it one tile to the NE or SE? As the red dots on the edited screenie below?

Or maybe even off-river, so as to keep the extra energy from a river/solar coming our way eventually

Personally I'd prefer scout patrols for SC3 & SC4, as you could probably guess.

Even if we turn Citadel's full production into scout patrols, with some crawler assistance from OA after we get Ind Auto?

[Zeiter]

Yes to the worker switch.

Hmm, one way I could think of to prevent Morgan from infiltrating us at the new base, is not building the base on (53.11), but rather on (54.12), the tile SE of that. Then we could immediately start production on a cheap naval unit like a laser foil. As the base starts with 10 free minerals, and when working the mineral tile would produce 4 minerals (or even 5 if the forest is ready by then), hurrying 6/5 minerals (or 15/13 credits) would be enough to get that foil the next turn. We could then station that foil on tile (52.10), blocking the passage for probe foils to our base, until our probe teams and boy scout currently under production can arrive there.

What if we put the base at the original spot and build a laser foil anyway? We could patrol those waters and inform Morgan that any probe foils or transports with probe teams inside found in that area will be destroyed on sight.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Even if we turn Citadel's full production into scout patrols, with some crawler assistance from OA after we get Ind Auto?

I agree with that specialization plan for after we've finished the impact infantry. However the problem is the impact infantryman will be only finished in three years, while our two new bases will also be founded in those three years, already resulting in b-drones. So if we'd wait for SC2 to recruit all the scout patrols we need, we'll probably have to turn several workers into doctors for a number of years.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
Unless I read over them you didn't give suggestions for the two formers on the mineral mines N of OA. What would you suggest to do with those two?

Some possibilities include (after the road is complete) moving a tile east to plant a forest or a sensor array, move to the tile E of SC2 to plant a forest, or move to SC1 and then further proceed to terraform those +1000m rolling&rainy tiles.

Or how about gangforming mines and roads on the 2 rocky tiles to the NE and NW of OA, ready for crawlers to do their 4 mins crawling trick?

[Googlie]

Proposed route for SCC Hunter for 2141 and 2142 (again, fungus permitting):

[KrysiasKrusader]

Maniac:

Regarding probe defence; that depends on what we will be concentrating on. I find that we are getting to far ahead of ourselves in all kinds of discussion without having a clear 'over all strategy'. But, as I said before, I hate getting infiltrated. Let's just try and avoide that, and incorporate some kind of probe defence within our plans, somehow.

Oh no...
I just saw the 'mine + road' on rocky tiles. I suppose I'll have to type a "Why I Don't Mine" post also...

Let's wait for the last minute before upgrading units in the invasion force. For some reason, the rules allow this, this game. (see post in the KK thread)


Zeiter:

I mostly agree with pretty much everything you've said here.


Googlie:

I woulden't know how to do printing any ways. And I don't have wordperfect (so woulden't know how to use that either). I'll just muddle along for now with my pen and paper.

Rushing the former is thumbs up from me.

Okay. I see your talking about mining too. Hmmm... I'd better choose my words carefully for that next post.


For the naval exploration routes; you do have "show base radius" ON, while your playing, eh?


Everybody:

Base placement will defintly change should something inadvertant come up (like Yang plopping another one down). Any ways there's no harm with talking about where to put them for now. And come to think of it; maybe I'm talking too much myself?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Or how about gangforming mines and roads on the 2 rocky tiles to the NE and NW of OA, ready for crawlers to do their 4 mins crawling trick?

Ah yes of course I fully agree! I was still thinking in pre-EcoEng mode. One former to the SW and the other to the SE, and then - when both roads are built - letting them build the mines together?

Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader
Oh no...
I just saw the 'mine + road' on rocky tiles. I suppose I'll have to type a "Why I Don't Mine" post also...

Please do! I can partially understand your aversion to farms (I hardly buit them myself before I discovered the joys of massive pre-tree farm popbooming), but AFAIK mines on rocky squares are about the best investment you can make.

[Googlie]

here's the midturn save with the following moves made:

• SCC Hunter moved west along its plotted route and entered the bay of Vander Eudaimonics, a Morgan base. Contact made. hunter continues on planned routesouth and west
• SCC Invincible left PK waters on a north/northwest route round the promontory northwest of UN Planning Authority
• The second probeteam entered Vladivostok, and they and their mates bpoarded SNC Hermes and sailed east-North-East encountering nothing but ocean for 3 tiles
• The colonypod disembarked from SNC Pegasus, ready for baseplanting next turn.
• The Trannie then moved north and east round the seafungus where the Alien Artifact boarded it for moving to Gythium Harbour.
• The AA's escorting rover moved south to act a temporary garrison for Minas Tirith
• R-112 cannot move East out of the Gaian mindworm's way as egress is blocked by a Hive colony pod. Instead I moved it back thru the monolith in the direction the Hive scout disappeared to last turn. This clears the way for the gaians to destroy the colony pod (As a gesture of good faith I'll send them a partial map similar to (but smaller than) the one I posted in their thread)
• The 2 formers above Olympus Academy split southeast and southwest respectively and started roads on these 2 rocky tiles before ganterraforming mines on each
• Craterwest's colonypod moved to join the former at the crater's northen rim, accompanied by its scout garrison
• Warwag moved from SC2 to Craterwest to garrison protem
• former in craterbases triangle moved towards SC2 en-route to farming the rolling & rainy tiles in the SC-GH-SC2 triangle
• Rover going for hand-off of AA returns to GH
• Scout Patrols started their training in the 2 SectorCrater bases

there are still some movement ordes to be given/executed as well as some build orders to fill, but I'll leave these for now till we have discussed/finalized some more.

[KrysiasKrusader]

Googlie:

Any particular intel with the AI's you interested in?

[Googlie]

In anticipation of receiving Ind Auto in 2142, I'd like to rush the following units (after the Gaians 25 ec's, we have 123 credits in our reserves):

Olympus Academy: rush the probe team there (3 mins needed) then in 2142 start a crawler there

Santiago Citadel: the Impact Infantryman (5 mins needed), then start a scout patrol

Fort Buster: the probe team (1 complete row of 10 mins), then start a scout patrol

We currently have the following garrison units (excluding rovers):

2 Battle Ogres
7 scouts

2142 we'll have an additional impact infantryman to act as a garrison

Then, if the above suggestions are accepted, in
2144 another 2 scouts will be produced from FB and SC2 (the latter might need to be rushed 1 mineral)

2145 we'll have another 2 scouts from the Craterbases.

that'll give us, by 2145 17 garrison units (worth 19, with the Ogres x2 police rating):

2 Ogres
11 scouts
1 infantryman
3 rovers in garrison

Our population will be 19, with no further expansion

But what this means is that we can't plan any Uni invasion until we have replaced those rovers with scouts (unless we get Doc Loyalty and change to POLICE)

[KrysiasKrusader]

For what I was saying about base placement a few posts up; Yang has two colony pods on their way to somewhere. Both I found were supported from Hole of Aspiration and Great Colloective. Two nearby bases at the frontiere with The Hive. So expect the border to fluctuate in the upcoming turns.

Yang will ask to Pact in order to schtomp the Gaians. Besides that, he refuse to talk about any kind of trade (sad face).

Zakharov wants to pact in order to schtomp The Hive. Only deal I can get is Ethical Calculus for 100 e.c.'s.

Lal refuses to speak to us (still). What did we do against him?

I'm okay with the rushes in your above post, Googlie. Only one I feel is a little expensive is the one at Fort Buster. But that's cause I personally don't feel the need to rush it this year.

Edit: spelling

[Maniac]

Starting reserve: 148c
Gaians: -25 ec's
Olympus Academy: -8c
Santiago Citadel: -13c
Fort Buster: -28c
That leaves 87c.

IIRC you liked the suggestion to hurry a laser foil in a new western coastal base? That would mean -15c.
I'm not sure, but did you suggest to hurry a former in Minas Tirith? If so, -18c.
That would leave 54c.

For our information, upgrading a scout rover costs 60c, and a recon rover 50c.
Do we also want to keep some money to speed up a second trannie at Vladivostok?
Do we also want to keep at least 100c, so we could buy from Ethical Calculus from Zakharov if Morgan would like to get that tech?

Credit production at 30% economy is 1/year.
At 60% economy that becomes 7/year.
Did we want to switch energy allocations, or leave them as is?

Hmm, looking at this overview, we might run into some money problems if Morgan isn't interested in paying a heavy sum for Gene Splicing.