2159 End Turn and 2160 Duscussion

[jtsisyoda]

The turn has arrived.

Mead posted the Spartan message in the diplo thread, that our two laser ships were destroyed.

[Mead]

Yes, I took a look at the turn.

We lost the garrison at Whohabitat to the mindworm.
We lost the southern gatorboat to the IOD.
We lost the eastern lasership Hunter to a Spartan ship.
We lost the western laser foil to a Spartan vessel of unknown type.

Our biggest concern is that that Spartan ship may be in a position to intercept our trans foil carrying probes to liberate tech from Uni. It depends upon where the Spartan ship was when it attacked our foil (N, S, or W of it), the type of vessel it is (a foil with 4+2 movement, a ship with 6+2 movement), whether it is elite +1, whether it was damaged -???. My guess is that the Spartan ship was being sent to stop any movement of our transport and will park off the Uni coast as soon as possible.

We now have a treaty with Lal and DA. I did not try contacting anyone to see if they want to talk or what they want to offer.

I think we may need to make a substantial tech trade (if necessary) with the DA to get a Pact and Commlink to the Gaians.

Also, we need to focus on crawlers to help us develope a good probe force (gatorboat, gatorship, and probeteams.)


Mead

[Mead]

Major Proposal for Pact with DA

I'm not sure I like the way things are are starting to go.

I'm a little afraid that Sparta may start to run away with the game.

I propose a major Pact with the DA whereby we give them much of out tech in exchange for:

all their tech (at least all that we want);
their world map;
commlink with Gaians;
their promise not to share tech with Gainians; and
their promise for them to vote for us in election for governor.



My intent is to get the above from the DA, then contact the Gaians and get the same deal from them. Then try to get elected governor.

Please let me know what you think.

We may need a delay of game from the Gods to consider and propose this to the DA as well as get their response.



My main intent is to not wait until we are desperate. I think we are starting to get in trouble with the Spartans and we need to form an alliance, now, agaist the Spartans.
The Spartans are far more dangerous than the DA.


Mead

[Drogue]

Re: Major Proposal for Pact with DA

Originally posted by Mead
We may need a delay of game from the Gods to consider and propose this to the DA as well as get their response.

While I accept that diplomacy is needed, and i'm aware it takes time, extensions will only be granted for exceptional circumstances. That means problems with the turn, problems with the forum, unexpected problems with the turnplayer, etc.. Normal game matters, such as diplomacy, has a 48 hour time limit. I have stopped other teams from conducting prolonged diplomacy sessions above the 48 hours before, and this rule applies to all factions.

As always, everyone gets one warning, and an extra 12 hours on that occasion before any action is taken, which the Morganites have not used yet.

[Mead]

Geo's response:

Re: Response on the Corporate's Treaty proposal


quote:

Mead wrote on 11-02-2005 00:56:
Geo

Will you be on-line later on this evening (Eastern US time) in about 4 hours?

I may need to discuss something with you and would like your input.

I have to log off now for a few hours, but I will log on in about three to four hours from now.

Mead

I'm sorry, I have to get up in 7 hours again and have an appointment shortly after, it's night here atm btw.
In case you need to discuss something urgently, I suggest checking if Mart or Herc are online. I won't be for the next 12 hours.

On a more official tone, I can say that the Corporations' proposal for a pact has been declined due to strategic reasons. Tech trading is currently under discussion among the Angels. I know for sure that the Angels, if the majority agrees to, can trade one tech for sure.

Based upon this I think we should save our one time 12 hour delay until sometime later when we need it.


I would like to get some more trading with the other factions as soon as possible.

I could propose a blockbuster deal with them or explore the proposed tech trade.


Mead

[Mead]

In case I was not clear in last post. I suggest we not use the delay this turn.




I do not want to delay the turn.


Mead

[jtsisyoda]

Ironically, I just had a net access problem and almost gave up posting this turn tonight.

[jtsisyoda]

I started a bunch of plasma garrisons. We should consider the possibility that the Spartan ships are just clearing a path for troop transports in the next few turns.

We have quite a few CP's moving around. One in the south is placed within range of a monolith and two special resource squares. This is just past Choke On This. It doesn't increase our exposure to Yang as far as number of bases on the land border. The new base will just be a little closer, that's all.

The formers in the northeast should start farms for the several CP's up there, so they can found their base at a full size three. That goes for refounding Paramiria by building a CP now, so it can go back to size three. With the Hunter gone, the drone issue is no longer holding it back.

The question of b-drones is a bit of a thorny one when new bases are founded in the next few years. Psych might have to go way up to 50%. If we can get Cent Emp from the Angels or Gaians, we could do Police/Green or Fundy/Green. The new Plasma Garrisons would help drones, as would increased efficiency with Fundy/Green; with Pol/Grn we could build a second Garrison (which we need anyway) to help with drones. If at some later time we have the resources to build a rec commons at every base, we could then switch back to Dem/FM. So my suggestion is to make a big diplo push for Cent Emp ASAP.

Formers are working on more mines, too. After getting some basic plasma defenders, crawlers would be a high priority.

The transport in the west is far enough south that I think the Spartan ship over there will not get us this turn. There's a decent chance it can drop off the two probes for tech acquisition before it's found. If we lose all three units that next turn, it's well worth the reward if we get SFF and SotHB! That's best case scenario, though.

[jtsisyoda]

See this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129410

[Mead]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
I started a bunch of plasma garrisons. We should consider the possibility that the Spartan ships are just clearing a path for troop transports in the next few turns.

***

True. I was thinking of this too. Although I thought the invasion would come from their western shores. Maybe they are using the forces they used to subdue Uni to attack us.

The transport in the west is far enough south that I think the Spartan ship over there will not get us this turn. There's a decent chance it can drop off the two probes for tech acquisition before it's found. If we lose all three units that next turn, it's well worth the reward if we get SFF and SotHB! That's best case scenario, though.

It is worth the gamble. I'm not looking at the map now, do we have the means to probe any tech from Yang before they try to probe Uni?

I will try to get tech from DA before they attempt their probe.


Mead

[jtsisyoda]

Our Gator Boat is still a few turns away from any Hive bases.

[jtsisyoda]

We could probably go to 40/20/40 econ/psych/labs next turn if I didn't do it last turn. Make sure we still complete our research on the same schedule, though.

If we found a base, we might get some more b-drones, and we might not. We should consider allowing one or two bases to riot or even starve if the alternative is super-costly psych allotments.

[#endgame]

Looking at the turn, I notice the following:

The spartans have trance synthmetal cruisers (at least one, probably more, morale: commando). Looks like IoD patrol. (Possibly lots of sea fungus on their western side?)

I think that a mineral focus would be good for a while, for the support and so we can afford a little lower econ since we won't need rushbuying as much. The formers near Mead Metal shoud be moving east to build more mines, IMHO.

I expect there is a spartan city at (54,8) owing to elevation, rolling/rainy squares, a river+rocky+minbonus square. This is reasonably close to our land, as is the garland crater, which is south of that. We could consider aiming for those as our foothold bases, since they'd have good min production, should a counterattack be required.

I don't know what the Spartans will do if we turn out to be well defended when they arrive. Mead, you know them better than anyone, what's your take?

Spartans have had a steep rise on the powergraph. New weapons, booming or both?

The spartans have moved toward a naval strategy, would it be possible to construct a former fleet big enough to terraform walls across the buster ocean to make it harder for them to use their ships?

I say Mead and myself both suggest shadow turns in terms of proposed moves (either in the form (x,y)->(x',y') or as general ideas) and we play his version, but we can both get (constructive) criticisms.

-- CTO #endgame

[Mead]

Originally posted by #endgame
Looking at the turn, I notice the following:

The spartans have trance synthmetal cruisers (at least one, probably more, morale: commando). Looks like IoD patrol. (Possibly lots of sea fungus on their western side?)

sounds plausible

I think that a mineral focus would be good for a while, for the support and so we can afford a little lower econ since we won't need rushbuying as much. The formers near Mead Metal shoud be moving east to build more mines, IMHO.

I agree. Our low mineral production is hurting our development. I read in the turn thread that solar flares are expected that should triple energy producion next turn. If so then we should make sure we emphasize econ and see what effect it will have on our tech rate for next year.

I expect there is a spartan city at (54,8) owing to elevation, rolling/rainy squares, a river+rocky+minbonus square. This is reasonably close to our land, as is the garland crater, which is south of that. We could consider aiming for those as our foothold bases, since they'd have good min production, should a counterattack be required.

I don't know what the Spartans will do if we turn out to be well defended when they arrive. Mead, you know them better than anyone, what's your take?

They infiltrated us so they know exactly how well we are armed. I think they are afraid of counter infiltration, tech steals, and losing units to probe actions. I don't think they will invade us until they can neutralize our probes (with HSA or a large number of thier own probes), or severly cripple us (by taking Morgan Indus plus a lot of othe bases) in one turn.

Spartans have had a steep rise on the powergraph. New weapons, booming or both?

Their pop is rising, but I think it's missile weapons.

The spartans have moved toward a naval strategy, would it be possible to construct a former fleet big enough to terraform walls across the buster ocean to make it harder for them to use their ships?

Yes it's possible, but for they next few turns we need to use our formers to ramp up our minerl production.
It would take a lot of cash and former turns. We would have to protect those formers, and we would be creating a land bridge to Sparta. We could more easily raise land along our northern shor to prevent ships from taking the northern passage. We could also place a base there to allow our own ships through.

I say Mead and myself both suggest shadow turns in terms of proposed moves (either in the form (x,y)->(x',y') or as general ideas) and we play his version, but we can both get (constructive) criticisms.

Sounds good.

My thoughts will be to increase the mineral production, seek out the Gaians, finish the placement of the CPs, increase number of gator boats, perhaps get Morgan Ind a Research Hospital in ~5 years and make one or more SSC (I'm not sure where).


Mead

[#endgame]

Morgan Ind would be a candidate for the SSC, or the city on top of Mount Drogue, IMHO.

Rather than seeking out the Gaians, how about getting the commlink from the DA? Where could we reasonably expect the tree huggers to be?

If we had WP and clean super formers, the landcage would be more feasible. Me may need clean reactors before we embark on this project.

-- CTO #endgame