Secret Projects - building and research (early game)

[Chaunk]

I loathe ICS, and I'll push strongly against it. It might be effective, but I promise you it's not as effective as a good old pop boom. Perhaps that explains my lower rating of the PTS compared to some of you?

[arginine]

One of the cities is 20 tiles away. We are on a mass of land >15 x 15. What appears to be an isthmus is about 15 squares away. If we can secure and hold the isthmus, I wouldn't worry too much about Yang.

[arginine]

I guess I am for PTS, because it turns all those size 1 cities into size 3 cities. That means we can make lots of size 1 cities at the beginning, and they become size 3.

This very well suited to Morgan, its pop limit is size 4 anyways.

Grow base size 1 to size 3. At size 3, the colony can pop boom (with some rushed facilities).

2 forest square + 1 farmed moist square + 1 colony pod = size 3 base, making 6 mins and ~11 energy.

To pop boom surround with forest, and add holo theater, rec commons, children's creche, tree farm and hab complex. Add research hospital for the last few pops and let grow to a respectable base.

So, we just spread forest, and have 1 farm per base. It's instant small cities. I envision us spreading up to the 3 b limit.

As finances permit, rush build the needed facilities in a size 3 city, then let it pop boom.

The strat I had posted earlier I did not mean to use for use in this game. ICS, means not using the facilities, which multiply wealth like tree farms and fusion labs. I will start out with lots of cheezy cities, but cities too close in, can be relocated, or used as a size 1 base home for troops outside our borders (I guess like a city with a punishment sphere).

[Mead]

Originally posted by arginine
One of the cities is 20 tiles away. We are on a mass of land >15 x 15. What appears to be an isthmus is about 15 squares away. If we can secure and hold the isthmus, I wouldn't worry too much about Yang.

How do we think that we are connected by an inthmus?

Mead

[Impaler[WrG]]

zome the map in and out using z and x, at max zoom out the shape of the continents becomes very obvius (atleast for me) if it dosent for you then it may be your screen resolution is different.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Chaunk
I loathe ICS, and I'll push strongly against it. It might be effective, but I promise you it's not as effective as a good old pop boom. Perhaps that explains my lower rating of the PTS compared to some of you?

While I'm inclined to side with you there, seeing as we're the Morganites with our low hab limits, I don't really see why we can't do both, using a semi-ICS with the PTS to get a number of size 3 cities up and running, then running a perpetual GA in all cities to induce pop boom (once facilities and forming are in place) and commerce.

[jtsisyoda]

I usually pop-boom rather than ICS, too. It's an option, though. I like the idea of building to a certain efficient critical mass, then switching gears to go kick some butt. Take the fight to the other guys instead of waiting to be invaded.

[Vander]

That raises an interesting question: Do we defend and turtle ourselves in? Or do we get proactive at initiate "Hostile Takeovers" of the other factions?

[Archaic]

Against humans, it's always better to attack than to defend.

[arginine]

I have thought about PTS vs PEG for a while, and I think we should go PEG, because the PTS can be overcome, but the PEG will be harder to overcome. I base my rationale on the fact that:

1) Energy will be the lifeblood of our economy. The PEG will instantly increase our energy by 50%.

2) When we decide to make a base 'big' we can home say two crawlers to it, and begin rushbuilding stuff. We will start with a children's creche. With democracy, that is +4 growth. Growth will cost 30 nuts. We could do that with a few homed crawlers on farmed rainy squares. We'd have to build at minimum a tree farm, children's creche, hab complex, and rec commons or holo theater needed for growth.

Rush build when 10 minerals become availible (I know it can be sped up, but this keeps it cheaper)
rush creche & turn on the crawlers.
rush theatre (so can go 3 -> 4 if no hab complex & +50% psych)
rush tree farm (free up the crawlers, and get some more bonuses)
rush hab complex (so can really grow!)
rush other happy buildings (rec. commons, research hospital).

Remember, that we need facilities to make content about 1/2 the current pop size in order to get GAs.

Some side benefits to doing this, such as we could do police state (if the ineff aint bad) and support 3 units / base, until we decide to boom. If we want police state, we can just steal the tech from Yang

This rush build / pop boom will be a VERY expensive process, so having those trade routes would definately be helpful.

The PTS will instantly double the strength of our empire, and provide 1 controlled drone... But it is more of a one time event. I am concerned whom the PTS and its benefits will fall to. Hopefully, it will be no one with good police.

This will have us with a bunch of size 1 cities, until decide to grow them. THE BASES WILL BE GIVEN SUFFICIENT SPACE, THIS IS NOT ICS.

Of course, this could use some testing out...

[jtsisyoda]

The PEG will increase ec income by 50%. But where do 95% of ec's go? Rush-building. For every 2 or 3 ec's you earn, you buy 1 mineral. So you could get the PEG and get maybe +3 ec's per size 1 base, or you could get PTS and get at least +2 minerals and +2 energy (+1 energy per square).

You can actually build the other projects faster after you have PTS. It increases your strength immediately. It will make it easier to build PEG. It's not a choice of PEG vs. PTS. PTS first means you can have both.

[arginine]

I don't know how aggressive the other humans are, but there are a small number of secret projects people will want to build. There are a total of 4 human factions in the game. Sure, we will probably be the first to IA, but building up the resources needed to build the project (unless we can get trance to upgrade). The other humans are as smart and determined as we are, and they will definately nab some of the desirable SPs. The question is which will they go for? I see the WP being a good draw, and the command nexus probably being a priority for the Spartans. I imagine the PTS is definately desireable, and the PEG would certainly be good for the other factions. I would guess we'd get 2 SPs since we have our energy advantage to get IA first, but building a SP requires lots of effort in the early game. The HGP takes about 6 turns with the first 6 cities and rush building, if all goes well...

I guess if we got trance early somehow, allocated most of our energy to ECON, got the PTS first, which boosts our production, then get HGP and PEG...

I guess the more skilled players will know which SPs to get and why, and I will leave this topic.

[jtsisyoda]

You don't have to leave the topic, arginine. You bring up many good points, the kinds of things that should be brought up. Sorry if my strong belief in PTS has irritated you or whatever.

[arginine]

Well my aim has been to get the Morganites to come up with a decision on which SP will be best for our team. The PTS will be a good idea I guess, provided we can take advantage of our sudden growth. 27 size 3 bases will make for a nice faction...

I think I just find it shameful for the PEG to go to a less energy appreciative faction. I think I am overestimating the role of energy, even for the Morgan.

Out of curiousity, for those who have played PBEMs before, around which year do the SPs start getting built, and which SPs go first?

[Chaunk]

It depends on the game and the players. I've played in games where the HGP has been build in 2120 or possibly even a turn or two earlier. But then I'm playing a game now where it's 2136 and no one has even started an SP. 2130 is usually where the SP rush starts, and if we can start in say 2125, we'll have a huge advantage, and will likely be able to get three SPs.

I disagree with jtsisyoda though on the PTS. I don't think PTS first enables you to get both projects unless you get the PTS very early, 2130 or so. It does increase production, granted, but not significantly enough to grant a "free" SP from it.

For my mind the SP's go like this:
HGP - essential for us. We really need this one to continue to expand in FM. It's not impossible without but it is much harder. Chaunk rating of 5/5

VW - very very nice. It's not essential, but it almost gives an instant golden age in a base with a net node and the HGP. Chaunk rating of 4/5

PTS - The benefits are obvious, but I think we'll face some very stiff competition for this one, and I'm not entirely convinced of the benefits unless we can get it early. If we get it, we need to make it our second project I think, and the earlier the better. 3/5.

PEG - lovely. Not essential of course, but we will indeed get the most benefit out of it, and it'll ramp up out e.c. collection to obscene levels. 4/5.

Anything else is just gravy I think, out of the early to early midgame projects.