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Posted by Vi Vicdi on 21-12-1999 20:40:
Parallel Ridge Energy Park
I guess the time has come to share my spreadsheet-tested energy park design, which I call "Parallel Ridges".
The energy park problem is one of dual, conflicting optimizations: terrain is raised most efficiently in a diagonal ridge (that would be in cardinal direction N, S, E, or W), while Echelon Mirrors are most efficient when laid down in a circular pattern.
My compromise is the Parallel Ridge. Pick two points, separated by 3 squares one way and 2 squares the other, and raise them diagonally (N, S, E, or W) in the same direction, so that their 2000m sections will interlace like a zipper.
Interlace and stagger your Echelon Mirrors. If you lay down the proper pattern, your Mirrors will fall in "strips" of every other square, like this:
M s M s M s <-- strip
s s s s s s
s M s M s M <-- strip, staggered
except, of course, the "strips" run NE, NW, SE, and SW -- because Alpha Centauri's map treats the cardinal directions N, S, E, and W as "diagonal". The reason for staggering is to avoid "hot spots", because energy production over 8 units is lost.
A good way to get the right pattern is to build E.M.'s on the starting points of your ridge, then starting at point 1 move diagonally toward point 2, then to the side that is not adjacent to point 2, then build a 3rd Mirror. Use those 3 as a guide for building the rest. Put solar collectors anywhere >= 2k & adjacent to at least 2 Mirrors. Then send in the crawlers!
If your formers only have a move of 1 (as mine do 'til hover) use a single former to go ahead of the others to build roads. It wastes turns for more than 1 former to enter a terrain square that doesn't have a road.
A final note: the most efficient way to start the second point of your ridge might be to "build to it" from your 1st point. I leave it to you to figure this one out.
The big advantage of the "parallel ridges" design is that it gives you lots of "surrounded" Echelon Mirrors which produce their maximum 8 units' output while at the same time allowing you to raise terrain in linear ridges. It is a compromise between the optimal linear pattern for raising terrain and the optimal circular pattern for maximizing the surface areas of your Echelon Mirrors.
A minor advantage of the Parallel Ridges is that you can keep on expanding it as long as you need more energy. I have found it most convenient to build along a pole, because you don't have to defend the pole side. As an added bonus the poles themselves are always "rocky" (build far enough away from the pole so that you get both the energy AND the mines.)
I leave it to you to decide where to drill aquifers. I sometimes put bases in the 1k areas on the edges of the ridge, but as a rule I don't allow base terraforming considerations to interfere with energy production, except occasionally in deciding where to drill aquifers.
I have put some serious thought into energy park construction, and "Parallel Ridges" is the culmination of that work. Tell me what you think!
Posted by Technocrat on 21-12-1999 22:23:
Are you entirely sure that energy production over 8 units is lost? I'm not sure you're correct - I thought that SMAC displayed "8+" in squares when the square was giving you either 8 units or more. I'll check, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this one.
My optimal base set-up is to terraform a ridge on the right side of the base going downward, so as to make all the squares in the production radius are rainy (and to raise the elevation for energy purposes), to place 2 boreholes at the left side of the base where I don't have to worry about slopes, and to place 2-3 Echelon Mirrors within the base's production radius itself (usu. at the squares adjacent diagonally to the base), and then surround the production radius with Echelon Mirrors in every adjacent square. Combined with rivers that I start at the peak of the ridge I've created to the right (which thus run down past the city to the left lowlands), I thus have made a city with "hotspots" in every square except in the Echelon Mirrors (and sometimes the boreholes, depending on social settings, rivers, and if the Merchant Exchange Project is in the base). Depending on Social Engineering settings and if I've built the Pholus Mutagen, I may have to make one, or sometimes even two, square(s) of forest in the production radius to keep eco-damage at zero.
If you're right about production above 8 being uncollected, though, your Parallel Ridge Energy Park probably is far better for contructing high energy output than my plan is...
Technocrat
Posted by Tau Ceti on 22-12-1999 06:32:
You can get more than 8 energy from a square. I have a crawler harvesting 10 energy per turn from my energy park right now...
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 22-12-1999 20:42:
Yikes! I tested the 8+ energy limit with workers, but not with crawlers!
Is it back to the drawing board, er, spreadsheet?
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 22-12-1999 21:22:
Yikes! I just tested it again, with workers no less, and the whole "8-unit limit" thing seems to be a figment of my imagination! I'm getting 9 energy, plain as day.
How could I have missed that?
Oh well, back to the spreadsheet.
Posted by Technocrat on 23-12-1999 11:37:
Sorry about that, Vi Vicdi! At least now you know so you can get more energy than before . Of course, why they didn't just go to "9+" instead of "8+" is anybody's guess (I mean, if they wanted to avoid displaying two digits in a square, why not just simply stop at 9?)
Oh well
Technocrat
Posted by tfs99 on 23-12-1999 12:02:
Probably has to do with the the fact that 8 is a power of two.
That is, the display of the graphic is somehow table driven and they did not want to "waste space", so they only used a 3-bit index.
That would be my guess.
SMAX n ... Ted S.
Posted by Urban Ranger on 23-12-1999 23:31:
There seems to be one small problem: cost. If you terraform far away from your bases, it will cost you thousands if not tens of thousands. It seems you will never recoup the cost, let alone make any profits, unless you do this parallel ridge thing near your bases, or even directly underneath them.
Posted by shimmin on 21-01-2000 13:49:
If cost is a problem, why not use a "disposable base"?
Build a base where you want the energy park, adjust food to keep it at size 1 (or 2, if you must). Raise the terrain. Abandon the base via colony pod, so you get your population point back, and build the improvements.
Posted by Fistleaf on 22-01-2000 00:36:
Why not simply build Boreholes and put crawlers on them, preferably from the base with Merchant Exchange?
Takes much less effort, smaller area to defend and energy per crawler is a very reasonable 6. Raising terrain and building so many echelons and mirrors is too time consuming and tedious.
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 22-01-2000 03:17:
SMAC-X certainly makes ocean energy supplying more attractive.
I have been meaning to compare the cost of an energy park w/ the cost of tidal harnesses. I guess I should compare w/ boreholes as well ...
Posted by Aredhran on 24-01-2000 02:05:
Re: ocean energy supply
As a matter of fact, I'm just about to complete a SMAC-X game with the caretakers where most of my energy production is done by sea.
With the I-forget-what-it's-called-sea-energy-enhancing-facility, Merchant Exchange and Golden age, each supply foil brings in 6 energy, 8 if there is a special resource.
It's much less costly both in $$$ and terraforming time (with WP and Super Formers, it takes just 2 turns to build a tidal harness, and 2 more if you have to clear fungus beforehand). I did not bother raising ocean floor, simply building along the coasts. 3 formers per "supply ship producing city" (assuming 1/turn rate and the occasional fungus patch to clear) are sufficient.
With the same units, a land-base energy park, while more efficient on a per-square basis, requires much more time, since you need to build solar collectors (2 turns), echelon mirrors (4 turns) and raise the land for maximum efficiency (4 turns, plus $$$).
Speaking of raising land, last night I played around with Tectonic Payload missiles, which are really convenient to raise your land, especially with high-power reactor types (they do not destroy terraforming enhancements !)
Aredhran
Posted by Bblue on 24-01-2000 03:00:
My energy parks are almost always waterbased. They are much quicker to build; faster to get the crawler too without a lot of micromanagment, and I don't have to worry about leaving room for a huge mirror array. And don't forget to look for the Geothermal Shallows.
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"Power does not corrupt; it merely attracts the corruptable"
Posted by Urban Ranger on 24-01-2000 22:07:
I agree that a faster method is always better. The only thing that is of essence is speed. Therefore, using Tectonic payload - when available - and water based energy parks are great ideas.
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If I can't believe in my own eyes, whose eyes can I believe? Yours?!
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 25-01-2000 19:33:
In the Morgan Challenge I used the land-based Parallel Ridge park for landlocked bases and the ocean for sea bases. It worked out pretty well.
Fusion power is the key to trawling. Before fusion the trawlers are way-expensive; after fusion you can build the bottom-of-the-line foil supply for the same price as a crawler.
Once your industry cranks up you can start using Cruiser suppliers, which are faster, and you can armor them, which makes it more feasible to put them further out to sea. You can also put Drop Pods on land-based crawlers ...
One problem with trawlers is you can't put drop pods on them, making it costly to reassign them to other duties as your empire expands. I hate having non-harvesting suppliers. Suppliers should start harvesting the same turn they are built!
With Drop Pods you can reassign minerals from a base that's got too many to a base that has too few without missing a turn, either via magrail or Airdrop. (You can make as many 8-square drops as you want in any given turn, but your crawler takes damage every time you don't land on a base.)
That said, most suppliers don't get reassigned, so as long as you've got a few with Drop capability having a bunch that don't is no big deal.
What happens if an "ally" builds a base either on top of a harvesting trawler (if indeed that is legal) or such that "your territory" becomes his?
[This message has been edited by Vi Vicdi (edited January 25, 2000).]
Posted by Misotu on 26-01-2000 18:48:
Regarding crawlers harvesting in the territory of an ally, I have encountered this situation several times.
My crawlers have harvested successfully in another faction's territory. This is true when I have a pact or a treaty with the faction. I've never harvested in enemy territory, for obvious reasons, but I can't see any reason why this wouldn't work too.
- Mis
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 27-01-2000 17:20:
... however, when Echelon Mirrors cease to be in your territory, they cease to work for you ...
Posted by pauli on 27-01-2000 19:02:
you can harvest in enemy territory, provided that the square is not in use already.
btw, heavily armored drop crawlers are a wonderful way to bleed off some of those pesky units the enemy has filled their cities up with...
Posted by Civ-wrecked on 13-03-2000 18:22:
=========================================
"What happens if an "ally" builds a base either on top of a harvesting trawler (if indeed that is legal) or such that "your territory" becomes his?"
=========================================
It happened to me. After that, the trawler would be harvesting no resource from the ally's base. It's a special resource spot also . My other nearby trawlers still harvesting as if nothing happened even though they were harvesting inside the ally's sea territory now. Since the submissive ally can't kick my trawlers out and there were few ocean shelf squares left, that base couldn't ever grow anywhere fast for a hundred turns or so.
BTW, another advantage to sea energy park is that the trawlers move a longer distance and therefore when it's time to cash in some of them for a special SP (like the Supercollider or ToE) a few of those trawlers, expecially the expensive fission ones, can reach the SS city and get the SP built in one turn, giving instant benefit to the SS city. It's not so easy for crawlers in a land-based energy park which might not even be conveniently-located nearby.
Posted by RedFred on 13-03-2000 18:47:
As far as the great land v. sea energy park debate I'd have to say you need to go with what you have. I normally use both, but the proportion of energy I can pull in from these two sources depends on how much free land or sea space I have.
Sea space is normally huge, but I am way happier sending out the sea crawlers to "captured" rather than neutral sea. I just find the enemy AI pinging away at my sea crawlers irritating. By "captured" sea, what I mean is sea that I either control all surrounding land, or big bays that I can effectively capture with terraforming up or strategic placement of sea bases. Open sea will do if I have no other option.
Time is money (energy?) and the quickest route to gaining more energy is in the seas.
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 16-03-2000 22:52:
RedFred: Brilliant insight. Go with the territory. "Always go ocean" is asking for trouble on some maps; "always build on land" may be ignoring easy money.
Posted by Sikander on 17-03-2000 06:51:
RedFred,
I usually surround my continents with trawlers (with free radar). I try to keep them within friendly air or cruiser range to protect them, and use sea colonies when necessary to provide air bases. I agree that the player must take advantage of the hand s/he is dealt.
I'm currently trying a hybrid perfectionist / Borg strategy, whereby some of the initial cities near the capitol become super science cities, and the outer cities go with the simpler Borg style, and produce mostly units. I realize that this style has the disadvantages of both modes, but I am hoping that for single player enjoyment the advantages and challenges will keep the game interesting.
Posted by Googlie on 08-08-2000 05:53:
^
Posted by DilithiumDad on 18-08-2000 17:33:
To get either land or sea crawlers into production immediately, I use a "tag team" ploy. Send your new crawler to a square occupied by an existing crawler. Activate the old crawler and use its full move points to go to an unused square. You can end up harvesting energy from the other side of the board and having it show up in your merchant Exchange/Super Science City without inefficiency! And without waiting multiple turns for the crawler to get to its spot! No need for cruiser supplies, just use foils and deploy in tag teams.
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Creator of the Ultimate Builder Map, based on the Huge Map of Planet
Posted by Provost Harrison on 19-08-2000 14:02:
The consensus thought has been the
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-
is the most efficient for harvesting power...
Posted by Grigger on 21-08-2000 11:04:
I like that tag-team idea. You get you resources faster, plus don't have to look at units and wonder where you sent them off to (my biggest problem with my huge empires).
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Originally posted by Slimehorse
Combing Vel's guide one sees the term "Energy Park" come up quite a bit... but would one of you experts please explain how to build one? I'm lost without a map. Specifically- 1) what do they look like and how do you put one together; 2) patterning/ratio of collectors to Echelons; 3a) do bases or crawlers work them; 3b) and therefore should they be in the center of your empire or out in some lightly colonized hinterland; 4) sea parks vs. land parks. From what I've gathered, parks are the key to winning on Transcend, which is something I have yet to do. By far. Wow, didn't want to confess that.
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Originally posted by Kinjiru
Energy parks are not necessary to win on transcend, but they sure do make things easier!
The best place to build one is in a remote region that no one is likely to investigate. The reason you want it remote is that your usuage of the park will wholly depend on crawlers. And as I am sure you know, a couple of arty units or a squadron of bombers can utterly destroy a collection of crawlers in no time.
As to how to build one, simply raise all the land you are going to use. You want every square above 3000 meters to gain the maximium benefit. It will get very very expensive to raise all this land, so first of all, look for spots that are already up high. Second, plop a colony pod down in the middle of the to-be-raised land. If you have a base there, your terraforming costs will drop tremendously. Once you have the land raised, you can starve the base down to size one and then disband it by building another colony pod there.
As for layout, I will leave that to you to find the old threads that talk about it. There is a layout that provided maximum benefit for least cost. The thread was originated maybe 14 months ago or so. Look for ones with the term 'energy park' in the subject.
How to utilize a park? Once you have your mirrors and collectors set up, just plop crawlers down on every square. If you are using the most efficient layout, you will be pulling in 10 or 12 energy per square every turn ( I forget which, the screen would just show '8+').
You can achieve higher absolute returns with land parks. However, in SMAX, I think sea parks are the better value because you do not have to spend a dime (other than unit costs) to build them.
Have fun!
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Posted by Slimehorse on 22-02-2001 10:25:
Kinjiru: thanks a lot. One other thing- at what part of the game should you begin building them? It seems to take a lot of effort- when is it worth it to pull all those formers off your city squares to start on a remote energy park? Oh- and also, does the energy park serve one city only (i.e. all the crawlers come from your Headquarters) or do you share the wealth?
Also, has anyone had the pleasure of seeing the real-life energy park out in the Mojave desert? It's somewhere between Mojave, CA and Barstow, CA, on the way to Las Vegas. Very very cool.
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Posted by LoD on 22-02-2001 12:09:
Adding to Kinjiru's post: the most efficient way to build crawler parks AFAIR is like this:
SSSSS
EEEEE
SSSSS
EEEEE
SSSSS
S - Solar Collectors
E - Echelon Mirrors
Also, you have to remember to place a base somewhere nearby the energy park - the whole business has to be inside your territory to generate any real revenue.
Parallel Ridge Energy Park
I guess the time has come to share my spreadsheet-tested energy park design, which I call "Parallel Ridges".
The energy park problem is one of dual, conflicting optimizations: terrain is raised most efficiently in a diagonal ridge (that would be in cardinal direction N, S, E, or W), while Echelon Mirrors are most efficient when laid down in a circular pattern.
My compromise is the Parallel Ridge. Pick two points, separated by 3 squares one way and 2 squares the other, and raise them diagonally (N, S, E, or W) in the same direction, so that their 2000m sections will interlace like a zipper.
Interlace and stagger your Echelon Mirrors. If you lay down the proper pattern, your Mirrors will fall in "strips" of every other square, like this:
M s M s M s <-- strip
s s s s s s
s M s M s M <-- strip, staggered
except, of course, the "strips" run NE, NW, SE, and SW -- because Alpha Centauri's map treats the cardinal directions N, S, E, and W as "diagonal". The reason for staggering is to avoid "hot spots", because energy production over 8 units is lost.
A good way to get the right pattern is to build E.M.'s on the starting points of your ridge, then starting at point 1 move diagonally toward point 2, then to the side that is not adjacent to point 2, then build a 3rd Mirror. Use those 3 as a guide for building the rest. Put solar collectors anywhere >= 2k & adjacent to at least 2 Mirrors. Then send in the crawlers!
If your formers only have a move of 1 (as mine do 'til hover) use a single former to go ahead of the others to build roads. It wastes turns for more than 1 former to enter a terrain square that doesn't have a road.
A final note: the most efficient way to start the second point of your ridge might be to "build to it" from your 1st point. I leave it to you to figure this one out.
The big advantage of the "parallel ridges" design is that it gives you lots of "surrounded" Echelon Mirrors which produce their maximum 8 units' output while at the same time allowing you to raise terrain in linear ridges. It is a compromise between the optimal linear pattern for raising terrain and the optimal circular pattern for maximizing the surface areas of your Echelon Mirrors.
A minor advantage of the Parallel Ridges is that you can keep on expanding it as long as you need more energy. I have found it most convenient to build along a pole, because you don't have to defend the pole side. As an added bonus the poles themselves are always "rocky" (build far enough away from the pole so that you get both the energy AND the mines.)
I leave it to you to decide where to drill aquifers. I sometimes put bases in the 1k areas on the edges of the ridge, but as a rule I don't allow base terraforming considerations to interfere with energy production, except occasionally in deciding where to drill aquifers.
I have put some serious thought into energy park construction, and "Parallel Ridges" is the culmination of that work. Tell me what you think!
Posted by Technocrat on 21-12-1999 22:23:
Are you entirely sure that energy production over 8 units is lost? I'm not sure you're correct - I thought that SMAC displayed "8+" in squares when the square was giving you either 8 units or more. I'll check, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this one.
My optimal base set-up is to terraform a ridge on the right side of the base going downward, so as to make all the squares in the production radius are rainy (and to raise the elevation for energy purposes), to place 2 boreholes at the left side of the base where I don't have to worry about slopes, and to place 2-3 Echelon Mirrors within the base's production radius itself (usu. at the squares adjacent diagonally to the base), and then surround the production radius with Echelon Mirrors in every adjacent square. Combined with rivers that I start at the peak of the ridge I've created to the right (which thus run down past the city to the left lowlands), I thus have made a city with "hotspots" in every square except in the Echelon Mirrors (and sometimes the boreholes, depending on social settings, rivers, and if the Merchant Exchange Project is in the base). Depending on Social Engineering settings and if I've built the Pholus Mutagen, I may have to make one, or sometimes even two, square(s) of forest in the production radius to keep eco-damage at zero.
If you're right about production above 8 being uncollected, though, your Parallel Ridge Energy Park probably is far better for contructing high energy output than my plan is...
Technocrat
Posted by Tau Ceti on 22-12-1999 06:32:
You can get more than 8 energy from a square. I have a crawler harvesting 10 energy per turn from my energy park right now...
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 22-12-1999 20:42:
Yikes! I tested the 8+ energy limit with workers, but not with crawlers!
Is it back to the drawing board, er, spreadsheet?
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 22-12-1999 21:22:
Yikes! I just tested it again, with workers no less, and the whole "8-unit limit" thing seems to be a figment of my imagination! I'm getting 9 energy, plain as day.
How could I have missed that?
Oh well, back to the spreadsheet.
Posted by Technocrat on 23-12-1999 11:37:
Sorry about that, Vi Vicdi! At least now you know so you can get more energy than before . Of course, why they didn't just go to "9+" instead of "8+" is anybody's guess (I mean, if they wanted to avoid displaying two digits in a square, why not just simply stop at 9?)
Oh well
Technocrat
Posted by tfs99 on 23-12-1999 12:02:
Probably has to do with the the fact that 8 is a power of two.
That is, the display of the graphic is somehow table driven and they did not want to "waste space", so they only used a 3-bit index.
That would be my guess.
SMAX n ... Ted S.
Posted by Urban Ranger on 23-12-1999 23:31:
There seems to be one small problem: cost. If you terraform far away from your bases, it will cost you thousands if not tens of thousands. It seems you will never recoup the cost, let alone make any profits, unless you do this parallel ridge thing near your bases, or even directly underneath them.
Posted by shimmin on 21-01-2000 13:49:
If cost is a problem, why not use a "disposable base"?
Build a base where you want the energy park, adjust food to keep it at size 1 (or 2, if you must). Raise the terrain. Abandon the base via colony pod, so you get your population point back, and build the improvements.
Posted by Fistleaf on 22-01-2000 00:36:
Why not simply build Boreholes and put crawlers on them, preferably from the base with Merchant Exchange?
Takes much less effort, smaller area to defend and energy per crawler is a very reasonable 6. Raising terrain and building so many echelons and mirrors is too time consuming and tedious.
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 22-01-2000 03:17:
SMAC-X certainly makes ocean energy supplying more attractive.
I have been meaning to compare the cost of an energy park w/ the cost of tidal harnesses. I guess I should compare w/ boreholes as well ...
Posted by Aredhran on 24-01-2000 02:05:
Re: ocean energy supply
As a matter of fact, I'm just about to complete a SMAC-X game with the caretakers where most of my energy production is done by sea.
With the I-forget-what-it's-called-sea-energy-enhancing-facility, Merchant Exchange and Golden age, each supply foil brings in 6 energy, 8 if there is a special resource.
It's much less costly both in $$$ and terraforming time (with WP and Super Formers, it takes just 2 turns to build a tidal harness, and 2 more if you have to clear fungus beforehand). I did not bother raising ocean floor, simply building along the coasts. 3 formers per "supply ship producing city" (assuming 1/turn rate and the occasional fungus patch to clear) are sufficient.
With the same units, a land-base energy park, while more efficient on a per-square basis, requires much more time, since you need to build solar collectors (2 turns), echelon mirrors (4 turns) and raise the land for maximum efficiency (4 turns, plus $$$).
Speaking of raising land, last night I played around with Tectonic Payload missiles, which are really convenient to raise your land, especially with high-power reactor types (they do not destroy terraforming enhancements !)
Aredhran
Posted by Bblue on 24-01-2000 03:00:
My energy parks are almost always waterbased. They are much quicker to build; faster to get the crawler too without a lot of micromanagment, and I don't have to worry about leaving room for a huge mirror array. And don't forget to look for the Geothermal Shallows.
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"Power does not corrupt; it merely attracts the corruptable"
Posted by Urban Ranger on 24-01-2000 22:07:
I agree that a faster method is always better. The only thing that is of essence is speed. Therefore, using Tectonic payload - when available - and water based energy parks are great ideas.
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If I can't believe in my own eyes, whose eyes can I believe? Yours?!
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 25-01-2000 19:33:
In the Morgan Challenge I used the land-based Parallel Ridge park for landlocked bases and the ocean for sea bases. It worked out pretty well.
Fusion power is the key to trawling. Before fusion the trawlers are way-expensive; after fusion you can build the bottom-of-the-line foil supply for the same price as a crawler.
Once your industry cranks up you can start using Cruiser suppliers, which are faster, and you can armor them, which makes it more feasible to put them further out to sea. You can also put Drop Pods on land-based crawlers ...
One problem with trawlers is you can't put drop pods on them, making it costly to reassign them to other duties as your empire expands. I hate having non-harvesting suppliers. Suppliers should start harvesting the same turn they are built!
With Drop Pods you can reassign minerals from a base that's got too many to a base that has too few without missing a turn, either via magrail or Airdrop. (You can make as many 8-square drops as you want in any given turn, but your crawler takes damage every time you don't land on a base.)
That said, most suppliers don't get reassigned, so as long as you've got a few with Drop capability having a bunch that don't is no big deal.
What happens if an "ally" builds a base either on top of a harvesting trawler (if indeed that is legal) or such that "your territory" becomes his?
[This message has been edited by Vi Vicdi (edited January 25, 2000).]
Posted by Misotu on 26-01-2000 18:48:
Regarding crawlers harvesting in the territory of an ally, I have encountered this situation several times.
My crawlers have harvested successfully in another faction's territory. This is true when I have a pact or a treaty with the faction. I've never harvested in enemy territory, for obvious reasons, but I can't see any reason why this wouldn't work too.
- Mis
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 27-01-2000 17:20:
... however, when Echelon Mirrors cease to be in your territory, they cease to work for you ...
Posted by pauli on 27-01-2000 19:02:
you can harvest in enemy territory, provided that the square is not in use already.
btw, heavily armored drop crawlers are a wonderful way to bleed off some of those pesky units the enemy has filled their cities up with...
Posted by Civ-wrecked on 13-03-2000 18:22:
=========================================
"What happens if an "ally" builds a base either on top of a harvesting trawler (if indeed that is legal) or such that "your territory" becomes his?"
=========================================
It happened to me. After that, the trawler would be harvesting no resource from the ally's base. It's a special resource spot also . My other nearby trawlers still harvesting as if nothing happened even though they were harvesting inside the ally's sea territory now. Since the submissive ally can't kick my trawlers out and there were few ocean shelf squares left, that base couldn't ever grow anywhere fast for a hundred turns or so.
BTW, another advantage to sea energy park is that the trawlers move a longer distance and therefore when it's time to cash in some of them for a special SP (like the Supercollider or ToE) a few of those trawlers, expecially the expensive fission ones, can reach the SS city and get the SP built in one turn, giving instant benefit to the SS city. It's not so easy for crawlers in a land-based energy park which might not even be conveniently-located nearby.
Posted by RedFred on 13-03-2000 18:47:
As far as the great land v. sea energy park debate I'd have to say you need to go with what you have. I normally use both, but the proportion of energy I can pull in from these two sources depends on how much free land or sea space I have.
Sea space is normally huge, but I am way happier sending out the sea crawlers to "captured" rather than neutral sea. I just find the enemy AI pinging away at my sea crawlers irritating. By "captured" sea, what I mean is sea that I either control all surrounding land, or big bays that I can effectively capture with terraforming up or strategic placement of sea bases. Open sea will do if I have no other option.
Time is money (energy?) and the quickest route to gaining more energy is in the seas.
Posted by Vi Vicdi on 16-03-2000 22:52:
RedFred: Brilliant insight. Go with the territory. "Always go ocean" is asking for trouble on some maps; "always build on land" may be ignoring easy money.
Posted by Sikander on 17-03-2000 06:51:
RedFred,
I usually surround my continents with trawlers (with free radar). I try to keep them within friendly air or cruiser range to protect them, and use sea colonies when necessary to provide air bases. I agree that the player must take advantage of the hand s/he is dealt.
I'm currently trying a hybrid perfectionist / Borg strategy, whereby some of the initial cities near the capitol become super science cities, and the outer cities go with the simpler Borg style, and produce mostly units. I realize that this style has the disadvantages of both modes, but I am hoping that for single player enjoyment the advantages and challenges will keep the game interesting.
Posted by Googlie on 08-08-2000 05:53:
^
Posted by DilithiumDad on 18-08-2000 17:33:
To get either land or sea crawlers into production immediately, I use a "tag team" ploy. Send your new crawler to a square occupied by an existing crawler. Activate the old crawler and use its full move points to go to an unused square. You can end up harvesting energy from the other side of the board and having it show up in your merchant Exchange/Super Science City without inefficiency! And without waiting multiple turns for the crawler to get to its spot! No need for cruiser supplies, just use foils and deploy in tag teams.
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Creator of the Ultimate Builder Map, based on the Huge Map of Planet
Posted by Provost Harrison on 19-08-2000 14:02:
The consensus thought has been the
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-
s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-s-E-
is the most efficient for harvesting power...
Posted by Grigger on 21-08-2000 11:04:
I like that tag-team idea. You get you resources faster, plus don't have to look at units and wonder where you sent them off to (my biggest problem with my huge empires).
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Originally posted by Slimehorse
Combing Vel's guide one sees the term "Energy Park" come up quite a bit... but would one of you experts please explain how to build one? I'm lost without a map. Specifically- 1) what do they look like and how do you put one together; 2) patterning/ratio of collectors to Echelons; 3a) do bases or crawlers work them; 3b) and therefore should they be in the center of your empire or out in some lightly colonized hinterland; 4) sea parks vs. land parks. From what I've gathered, parks are the key to winning on Transcend, which is something I have yet to do. By far. Wow, didn't want to confess that.
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Originally posted by Kinjiru
Energy parks are not necessary to win on transcend, but they sure do make things easier!
The best place to build one is in a remote region that no one is likely to investigate. The reason you want it remote is that your usuage of the park will wholly depend on crawlers. And as I am sure you know, a couple of arty units or a squadron of bombers can utterly destroy a collection of crawlers in no time.
As to how to build one, simply raise all the land you are going to use. You want every square above 3000 meters to gain the maximium benefit. It will get very very expensive to raise all this land, so first of all, look for spots that are already up high. Second, plop a colony pod down in the middle of the to-be-raised land. If you have a base there, your terraforming costs will drop tremendously. Once you have the land raised, you can starve the base down to size one and then disband it by building another colony pod there.
As for layout, I will leave that to you to find the old threads that talk about it. There is a layout that provided maximum benefit for least cost. The thread was originated maybe 14 months ago or so. Look for ones with the term 'energy park' in the subject.
How to utilize a park? Once you have your mirrors and collectors set up, just plop crawlers down on every square. If you are using the most efficient layout, you will be pulling in 10 or 12 energy per square every turn ( I forget which, the screen would just show '8+').
You can achieve higher absolute returns with land parks. However, in SMAX, I think sea parks are the better value because you do not have to spend a dime (other than unit costs) to build them.
Have fun!
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Posted by Slimehorse on 22-02-2001 10:25:
Kinjiru: thanks a lot. One other thing- at what part of the game should you begin building them? It seems to take a lot of effort- when is it worth it to pull all those formers off your city squares to start on a remote energy park? Oh- and also, does the energy park serve one city only (i.e. all the crawlers come from your Headquarters) or do you share the wealth?
Also, has anyone had the pleasure of seeing the real-life energy park out in the Mojave desert? It's somewhere between Mojave, CA and Barstow, CA, on the way to Las Vegas. Very very cool.
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Posted by LoD on 22-02-2001 12:09:
Adding to Kinjiru's post: the most efficient way to build crawler parks AFAIR is like this:
SSSSS
EEEEE
SSSSS
EEEEE
SSSSS
S - Solar Collectors
E - Echelon Mirrors
Also, you have to remember to place a base somewhere nearby the energy park - the whole business has to be inside your territory to generate any real revenue.
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