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(copied over from old forum)
Chaunk
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 01:01 PM
This is a bit of a selfish question really, but I guess it could well apply to our situation in the game. I'm currently playing a game where I'm facing some stiff competition for the VW & the PEG, and I can likely only get one of them. Which one should it be?
I'm leaning towards the VW as I'd want to build Network Nodes anyway, and hologram theatres have a massive upkeep cost. But then the PEG is giving me FREE facilities that I don't need to tie up any build queues to get.
Given the choice, which would you build and why?
I could also build the PTS, but I don't think I'll get a huge amount of benefit from it in truth. I'm already leading in population amongst the non ai (My Morgan is second to my believers in first place, ai roze is currently leading in pop, but not for long, and has already been overtaken by my combined pop)
Comments apriciated, and quickly prefered, as it's likely I only have one turn to decide...
jtsisyoda
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 04:24 PM
I think it's ethically questionable to ask for advice about a specific PBEM in progress. Given that I've faced the save dilemna and we may well face it in the ACDG, I'll put forth some general theory as I see it. HT's are three times as expensive to maintain, although often there is no short term benefit. It is possible, however, for PEG to net so many credits in the short term and long term that it allows you to grow your faction to where building HT's is much easier. IOW, gaining 100 energy early or 200 energy 10-20 years later is hard to compare.
AndiD
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 04:33 PM
Or skip Holo Theaters completely (= saving the upkeep cost also), doing Dem, later Green/Knowledge (efficiency against b-drones), RecCommons, early Research Hospitals, temporary psych allocation for booming or specialist/crawler approach or whatever instead, especially if Morgan has the HGP.
Archaic
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 05:12 PM
Really depends what faction you're playing. If it's Uni, then it's VW without a doubt. Anyone else...and it depends if you're playing against a human Uni or not. If you are, you may wish to snag it for denial, since they'll find it harder to put the PEG to use with the unplanned drone problems they'll experience until they can get new Holo Theaters up. If not...may as well take the PEG and reap the rewards of a healthy economy.
Chaunk
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 10:27 PM
Ok in light of your post I won't discuss the game I'm playing further and will stick to generalisations instead. I have no problems discussing PBEM's in progress, and would be happy for my opponents to do the same, but only after contact has been made with all factions (as it has in this game.)
But anyway.
HT are horrifically expensive to maintain. AndiD does make a good point though that we may not need them. I somewhat agree. We certainly wouldn't need them if we were only pop-booming to size 7 as the drone control could be done by a RecCommons and a Research Hospital, both considerably more useful overall. However, beyond size 7, we need more drones controled to GA boom. Specifically in our case, 5 drones to get upto size 11 via a GA. That is easily achieved by RC, RH and HT. The upkeep cost of those three facilities (Plus a HabComplex of course) is huge (I don't have SMAX in front of me, but I think 8/turn is right?). Now with the VW, the HT can be a Network Node, reducing the upkeep to 6/turn (Assuming 8 is right.) with the aditional benefit of increased labs points.
On the other hand, with the PEG, we can allocate more points to labs than usual because of the increased energy gain. Plus we would have a FREE facility (Albeit one that only costs 1 upkeep anyway) in all our bases PLUS in any bases we captured in the future. The gain in energy can be a huge boon to all bases, meaning faster faction growth in the future, both in terms of pops (From easier rushed CP's) and in terms of units & facilities.
My pick would be the VW, due to the far easier GA booming it offers. But then I'm torn because of the extra cash...
Archaic
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 11:26 PM
Well, you will have extra cash anyway if you just go into perpetual GA and take in the +1 economy at each base.
arginin
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 02:03 AM
I'd go PEG, especially If you are upgrading several bases at a time instead of all at once.
PEG effects ALL bases. VW, only those with net nodes.
Net nodes are 8 rows each, holo theatres 6 rows.
Ideally, the extra cash made by PEG should more than compensate for the cost of holotheatres.
Chaunk
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 01:01 PM
This is a bit of a selfish question really, but I guess it could well apply to our situation in the game. I'm currently playing a game where I'm facing some stiff competition for the VW & the PEG, and I can likely only get one of them. Which one should it be?
I'm leaning towards the VW as I'd want to build Network Nodes anyway, and hologram theatres have a massive upkeep cost. But then the PEG is giving me FREE facilities that I don't need to tie up any build queues to get.
Given the choice, which would you build and why?
I could also build the PTS, but I don't think I'll get a huge amount of benefit from it in truth. I'm already leading in population amongst the non ai (My Morgan is second to my believers in first place, ai roze is currently leading in pop, but not for long, and has already been overtaken by my combined pop)
Comments apriciated, and quickly prefered, as it's likely I only have one turn to decide...
jtsisyoda
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 04:24 PM
I think it's ethically questionable to ask for advice about a specific PBEM in progress. Given that I've faced the save dilemna and we may well face it in the ACDG, I'll put forth some general theory as I see it. HT's are three times as expensive to maintain, although often there is no short term benefit. It is possible, however, for PEG to net so many credits in the short term and long term that it allows you to grow your faction to where building HT's is much easier. IOW, gaining 100 energy early or 200 energy 10-20 years later is hard to compare.
AndiD
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 04:33 PM
Or skip Holo Theaters completely (= saving the upkeep cost also), doing Dem, later Green/Knowledge (efficiency against b-drones), RecCommons, early Research Hospitals, temporary psych allocation for booming or specialist/crawler approach or whatever instead, especially if Morgan has the HGP.
Archaic
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 05:12 PM
Really depends what faction you're playing. If it's Uni, then it's VW without a doubt. Anyone else...and it depends if you're playing against a human Uni or not. If you are, you may wish to snag it for denial, since they'll find it harder to put the PEG to use with the unplanned drone problems they'll experience until they can get new Holo Theaters up. If not...may as well take the PEG and reap the rewards of a healthy economy.
Chaunk
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 10:27 PM
(jtsisyoda @ Jun 22 2004, 03:24 PM)
I think it's ethically questionable to ask for advice about a specific PBEM in progress. Given that I've faced the save dilemna and we may well face it in the ACDG, I'll put forth some general theory as I see it. HT's are three times as expensive to maintain, although often there is no short term benefit. It is possible, however, for PEG to net so many credits in the short term and long term that it allows you to grow your faction to where building HT's is much easier. IOW, gaining 100 energy early or 200 energy 10-20 years later is hard to compare.
I think it's ethically questionable to ask for advice about a specific PBEM in progress. Given that I've faced the save dilemna and we may well face it in the ACDG, I'll put forth some general theory as I see it. HT's are three times as expensive to maintain, although often there is no short term benefit. It is possible, however, for PEG to net so many credits in the short term and long term that it allows you to grow your faction to where building HT's is much easier. IOW, gaining 100 energy early or 200 energy 10-20 years later is hard to compare.
But anyway.
HT are horrifically expensive to maintain. AndiD does make a good point though that we may not need them. I somewhat agree. We certainly wouldn't need them if we were only pop-booming to size 7 as the drone control could be done by a RecCommons and a Research Hospital, both considerably more useful overall. However, beyond size 7, we need more drones controled to GA boom. Specifically in our case, 5 drones to get upto size 11 via a GA. That is easily achieved by RC, RH and HT. The upkeep cost of those three facilities (Plus a HabComplex of course) is huge (I don't have SMAX in front of me, but I think 8/turn is right?). Now with the VW, the HT can be a Network Node, reducing the upkeep to 6/turn (Assuming 8 is right.) with the aditional benefit of increased labs points.
On the other hand, with the PEG, we can allocate more points to labs than usual because of the increased energy gain. Plus we would have a FREE facility (Albeit one that only costs 1 upkeep anyway) in all our bases PLUS in any bases we captured in the future. The gain in energy can be a huge boon to all bases, meaning faster faction growth in the future, both in terms of pops (From easier rushed CP's) and in terms of units & facilities.
My pick would be the VW, due to the far easier GA booming it offers. But then I'm torn because of the extra cash...
Archaic
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 11:26 PM
Well, you will have extra cash anyway if you just go into perpetual GA and take in the +1 economy at each base.
arginin
Posted: Jun 23 2004, 02:03 AM
I'd go PEG, especially If you are upgrading several bases at a time instead of all at once.
PEG effects ALL bases. VW, only those with net nodes.
Net nodes are 8 rows each, holo theatres 6 rows.
Ideally, the extra cash made by PEG should more than compensate for the cost of holotheatres.