Base Spacing discussion

[Chaunk]

I'm gonna post my base spacing here soon, but I thought we could do with a discussion thread first. I'll jsut ask a few questions to get the ball rolling...

Whats the average spacing between your bases?
Are there any special rules you follow?
Whats the maximum distance you allow for your bases?
How much of your base spacing technique is optimised for the Morganites?

Will post soon, but now I have to do some work

[Whoha]

Well chances of this game reaching hab complex = 0 so we can probably space our bases together quickly.

As a rule though I generally give my bases enough space for all 21 squares.

[Chaunk]

Whats the average spacing between your bases?

1-2 squares. There'll be one space on the diagonal or 2 spaces on the horizontal/vertical normally, ocasionally one more if the terrain demands it.

Are there any special rules you follow?

Yep. Bases go on the black squares so the boreholes can go on the white squares. (I tried to find a good example of this in my save games, but I've not got any... I might play a quick game for some screen grabs). A black square is any square you can get to using only 2,4,6,8 on the number pad from your first base location. (Although you'd probably want to use other keys to get there!) The boreholes can then be built at maximum density without disturbing cities at all.
Also, no base can be built inside another bases perimeter. This looks ugly, and I don't think it's efficient.

Whats the maximum distance you allow for your bases?

Bases must be within a singles turns movement on roads of at least one other base.

How much of your base spacing technique is optimised for the Morganites?

I don't know. My base spacing was based on blake's spacing (it is his really, but I don't use the same terraforming as him for the most part) and it's more suited to pop booming factions than for rabid ICSers. It gives each base a minimum of 7 squares (plus the base square for 8 total) or more likely 8 (1 around the base). Periphery bases get more of course.

As Morgan, bases tend to be smaller, and pop booming is harder (But still essential, or very close to essential). This spacing allows lots of room for crawlers and so forth, and yet is very flexible. I'm begining to think it's not quite flexible enough though, and that I might be better to allow bases to go anywhere, at the cost of a few boreholes. I'm die hard on the second rule about not inside another bases radius though... Urgh!

As far as terraforming goes, I use mostly forest and forget. I'll add a few condesers in, crawled for 4 nuts to pop boom, but only after the forest has been mostly done. Forest goes most everywhere. When tree farms and hybrid forests come around, crawlers start to be cashed in, former production is scaled up a notch (Hopefully clean at this point) and boreholes are dropped in. Should I get the WP, then the plan is mostly unchanged, except that condesers appear more often and I'm not afraid to work them for a while if I have to.

[Whoha]

I gotta say lets go with colonization style base spacing(as listed by Chaunk), it will probably be the best.

[arginine]

I do my bases in a grid, with 1 space apart, just like boreholes. I leave sites empty if necesary to make space. I will start out with 2 in 3 spots being used, but as I shift to higher population cities, I will either remove some of the cities, or make them 'support depots'. I should point out that I like to move for the PTS, and as such have many size 3 bases, until I give the base a tree farm, with which to pop-boom.

Forest and boreholes for bases, mines and condensors for crawlers. At the beginning, if I see a nutrients square, I will put a few bases in reach of it. Those bases will have forest squares. I will then choose mineral or nutrient accumulation, so the base produces the colony pod exactly when it grows.

[arginine]

I assume about 1/3 to 1/2 of squares are going to be crawled due to being rocky and thus a mine, a site for condensor, or in the early game used by fungus (wait until funicidal tanks if possible). The generic size 3 base has 2 forests, and a rolling moist farm.

[jtsisyoda]

The relation of the b-limit to the continent size is important. When planning tentatively how many bases I'll have, I pick some multiple of the b-limit, based on what SE choices I'll be using, and try to spread them fairly evenly over the continent.

There's also the matter of planting a base the same turn it's produced, requiring a road two squares away, preferably diagonally (a la Sikander). I don't go out of my way to do this, in that I don't clear fungus or level rocky squares. I also put a modest effort into placing bases 4, 5, 7 or 8 road squares away from the base that builds the CP. This allows you to move a decent amount while not losing an entire base turn to get only one square farther. (The 7 or 8 is for core bases sending CP's out to the periphery. The terrain would have to be really rich to justify sending CP's way out in the middle of nowhere.)

You also have to go where the two nutrient squares are. If the start is any indication, this won't be an issue.

Not planting a base in another base's radius is IMO an aesthetic concern, one I don't spend too much energy satisfying. The real issue for me is how many squares each base will have available, including workers and crawlers.

Regarding maximum borehole density, the last boreholes you put down don't provide that many minerals in the grand scheme of things, because the game usually ends soon after they are put down. I usually focus on the low-lying fruit-- putting boreholes in places where no preparation is required (no removing fungus, or raising or lowering land). I do try to place this low-lying fruit in such a way that it doesn't wreck completely the idea of getting a near-max density configuration later. But I'd rather build six BH's in say, 2150, than five in 2160 followed by two in 2170.

Similar to Chaunk, I go forest first. Usually three per city for PTS (assuming RT's), then a couple more for crawlers. Then I make a decision: either start a condensor-farm (or two) at each base (or selected bases) to prep for booming, or start boreholing. If con-farming, rather than cash in crawlers, I switch them from mins to nuts so the new workers can work forest. If boreholing first, it requires more formers, but there's less hassle... CC's and HT's, etc. become more optional. Boreholes have another advantage over population-- you don't stick out like a sore thumb on the dominance chart. In a free-for-all with no coop victory, this might be important. Boreholes are more flexible as far as play-style, IMO... Con-farms are very buildery. BH'ing is also good if we go with lots and lots of really close bases, maybe even Police/Green/Wealth? That would be a departure for our apparent builder-leaning membership, though (myself included).

Another benefit to close spacing for Morgan is that you don't lose as much of that beautiful base-square energy to inefficiency.

We should consider close spacing and lots of bases with a bomb & drop rush (ixnay on the opperchay's) in the mid-game. Our overall preference of hard-core builder, early builder becoming conquerer, etc. should actually be decided now, so we can optimize things like spacing and terraforming for that goal. Playing Morgan as a mid-game conqueror is very different from being a pure builder, in my experience. You give up a lot of efficiencies of scale that would help your future growth, but you can really whip up a nice army in a hurry.

[Frankychan]

I'm not the best player amongst us Morganites....

I usually go 2-3 spaces per base.

[CEO Aaron]

I'll endorse Chaunk's general spacing plan, with a couple of points I'd like elucidated:

Sensors: Will the terraforming department be diverting former time to plant sensors under the sites of our early bases? While the benefits of an indestructible sensor array are undeiable, the opportunity cost in lost former time (for more roads/forests) is considerable.

Pods: One trick I perfer to use when performing my early thin expansion is to leave pods that are near a future base site unopened until a base is planted. That way, the chances of a negative pod-pop are nearly eliminated (I say nearly because apparently the computer doesn't consider the earthquake result negative, whereas I do).

I generally agree that planting bases in each other's radii is something I prefer to avoid, but ultimately, the speed with which bases are established must be our primary goal. As such, my preferred pattern is Sik's 'one-on-the-diagonal' approach, but I prefer shift my pattern to accomodate fungus and rocky squares as opposed to removing/levelling the square.

[AndiD]

Another aspect, related to this:

I assume we are expanding horizontally until the first b-drone limit and then will start building crawlers and the HGP before expanding further, right?

It would be interesting to know where the b-drone limit exactly is so perhaps someone should calculate the MapRoot as soon as there is access to the map. If it is 7 we might consider an a bit more dense spacing (= quicker base placement) to get 8 bases down until IA than it would be with a lower first b-drone limit .

[CEO Aaron]

What's the difficulty and map size? I can calculate the baselimit. If it's (as I suspect) Transcend/Huge, then the limit is 9 bases. I typically tend to go a bit past the first limit before cranking out HGP, the penalty paid in workers is made up for by the existence of a new base square, with the accompanying minerals, energy and support it provides..

[Chaunk]

I imagine it will be 6 which is standard for a large map. To my knowledge, buster hasn't changed his alpha.txt map sizes.

I somewhat hoped we'd be doing that yeah Andi. The HGP rules, and expanding under FM without it is tricky to say the least.

jt, you make some good points re: Boreholes against condesor+farms. My take on it is that a crawlered con+farm = 2 pop, which can be two libararians for 6 research. A borehole requires 2 nuts from someplace else, so we need to add another librarian. Therefore, con+farm is roughly equal to 9 labs points, pre multiplying by facilities.
A bore hole is 7 eneregy, hence, (probably) 4 labs points, 3 e.c.s. Slightly loses out to the con+farm.

However, as morgan, the increased difficulty in pop booming means that a borehole can provide the extra energy to go to psych, whereas the con+farm doesn't provide this energy. Putting the borehole first though, means there may not be enough nuts to get a pop boom to work that borehole!

I prefer the con+farm first, using the extra pop as specialists or workers as required. Maybe that is indeed the builder in me talking though. I don't consider that to be a bad thing though. Morgan is the king of builders, by some way. Only zak can come close to a well played Morgan in a building race, and zak is ai here. We needn't fear if we can build in peace for 50 years

Certainly also, our initial base spacing should be around a central base - not necessarily our HQ, although that might be helpful. We should do that because then the crawlers to make the HGP have less distance to move, and hence, we build it quicker.

[jtsisyoda]

I thought this was going to be a large map, which would mean the b-limit is six.

CEO Aaron, I do sensors under bases only if I have former time to spare. First all early bases need their 2-nut square, roads, etc. So i only do it occasionally.

[Chaunk]

A crawler on top of a forest+sensor square will stop it being destroyed by any remote bombardment. But yeah, the 2 nut square is way more important, especially since we won't be able to get rec tanks early...

[AndiD]

I am currently playing a PBEM where the map is called LARGE but it is slightly larger than a LARGE PLANET and therefore the b-drone limit is 7, not 6. (found out by E_N! )

Maybe it's the same here? Edit: No, it's six bases. Just opened the turn and counted tiles

More info about map size calculation:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7361