The Observatory

[Drogue]

I have PMed him as follows:

Chaunk,

Because of your predicament, I have decided to inform you of this now, but I'd like it to be kept completely quiet for 24 hours, until it is publically released.

Enigma has cheated in the first turn of the DG, before it was replayed. We are 99% sure of that. He has cheated before, he has the means to cheat, he has stated to Kody that he does not, indeed cannot completely, stop cheating. The only course of action, therefore, is his removal from the game. I have discussed it with GeoModder, a prominent Angel, and he has agreed that it seems the best thing, for the game, and for his team.

He will be removed, until he has shown that he can play a PBEM without cheating. We're hoping he will start to change, after seeing the effects people have against it. However he will not be let back in until we're satisfied he is not likely to cheat. I doubt it will happen, but we leave the option open.

The reason I am delaying the annoucement for 24 hours is at HongHu's request. She and I have been worried about Enigma's mental state for a few months now. He is unstable. And he is taking quite a blow for the other PBEMs. If we told him, and took the decision, now, we believe he would flip, somewhat. We want to avoid that, and so ease him down. Therefore, I will PM him to inform him tomorrow, and then make it public. Until then, I am asking you to keep this firmly to yourself. I want to tell you, because of the situation with you leaving, and your teams desire for you to remain as the turn player.

Enigma will not take part in this DG, as I am determined that cheating will not be rewarded. It will take a lot to get people to trust him again, and until they do, he will remain out. A member who is not trusted will not be allowed back by the Angels. I hope this means you can stay, as you are a valuble member.

If you wish to discuss anything, feel free to PM myself

- Drogue

[Snowflake]

Sounds good to me, Drogue. Only thing I would like to note, that you mentioned that you have talked to Geo, but you have not mentioned if you have taled to Hercules. Herc is the team leader of the Angels. He sould be consulted for something that is as important as this.

[Kody]

Honghu I don't think you're dealing with things properly. The way you are going about things makes Enigma feel better, but doesn't win other people over. Making someone feel better is not always helping them.

Your strong arguments on exactly what everyone should be doing are more detrimental than anything else. You talk with a lot of passion, but passion only works when you fight for a noble cause. Blackmailing other people about you leaving only drags yourself down.

Did you ask what Enigma wanted or are you deciding what he wants. Sadly in my opinion, in recent months Enigma has picked up the habit of saying what you want to hear. I actually liked him a lot better when he said exactly what he wanted and thought like back in the Hive.

The way you talk indicates that you are not listening to him rather have your own ideas of what Enigma wants. He has stated that he's going to quit his PBEMs and that he wanted to keep with the ACDG. He also strongly hinted that he didn't want to grovel for forgiveness, but would prefer to leave. While you lobby to keep Enigma in his PBEMs, calmly agrees with Drogue in kicking him from the ACDG, and also start saying that Enigma will write more detailed apologies.

Like I said earlier, "we're not doing him a favour", we're making decisions for him by intervening. Decisions that he will not learn to make himself or decisions that he might not want to be made for him. We are not his parents, where it is our duty to make decisions for him.

Also now you talk of hiding the ACDG decision from Enigma. This is unadvisable firstly because he will feel betrayed and you are betraying him. Secondly, you are interfering with the decisions he is making as you're hiding some of the information from him.

If you really want someone to learn, let them make their decisions, you give advice without restricting their opinions in their mind then you support them even if you know the decisions they have made are wrong. That was one thing I learnt and paid for dearly during my time trying to hold the Hive together.

You need to let him make his decisions without you blocking off certain paths or pushing him along the way you think is right.

To answer your question. No, it is not because I am afraid. It is not because I want to offset his angry.

I just looked back you didn't answer the entire question, are you doing this because you feel responsibility for what you did. If you're trying to help him because of that, trust me when I say you'll be unable to help him. I suspect that this is the reason you have made all these mistakes to date.

I agreed to help you because I believe defending him to some degree is the right thing to do, someone at least needs to point out that Enigma is not a monster people make him out to be and give him a chance to make his own decision. I am scared of him as I know there is very little people cannot achieve if they put their mind to it and I feel responsibility for getting him into this mess. However, my fear of him is not going to make my decisions and I know my responsibility cannot be repaid in this time and place. My responsibility will probably not be even repaid to Enigma, but someone else that I know I can help.

[Snowflake]

I have not asked for your help Kody. Everybody does things that he/she believes is right. If you don't believe it is right to do so, don't do it.

I came here tonight to inform Drogue that I will be leaving ACDG when he announce that Enigma is going to be kicked out.

[Kody]

What I hate is how you have been forcing other people to make decisions which you think are right. You're doing it with me, with Enigma, and attempting to do it to other players too. If you want to treat other people as people you don't force them to do what you want.

*sigh* I realised I've been unfair.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by HongHu
I came here tonight to inform Drogue that I will be leaving ACDG when he announce that Enigma is going to be kicked out.

I have to say I don't understand this, and would ask you to stay. I know you have been involved with helping Enigma, and feel somewhat bad about what happened, but this is not your fault. I am the Mod, it is my decision, and I take responsibility for it. I thank you for your advice, and the information you have gathered, as it has been invaluble. As to the other PBEMs, I do not know, and would leave that to you and Kody to sort out. As to the ACDG, you have behaved well, and have helped me greatly. It would be a shame to see you go.

[Kody]

Well I'm kindof calmed down now.

Sorry Drogue that you're caught in the middle of the mess we've made with respect to all the teams talking about the Enigma issue. I think you're doing very well considering the circumstances.

[Drogue]

Thanks, and don't worry. I expected this when I put myself up for the job. I am sure it will all turn out fine, and without Enigma, which while sad to lose him, also reduces insults and conflict there. You did what you needed to for the other PBEMs, and that's fine. The DG will be fine

[Snowflake]

Drogue, please understand this is not a blackmail as Kody indicated. I supported your decision, because this is the only way to save the ACDG.

However I feel that we have mistreated Enigma. No matter how bad one person has acted before, it does not given us right to mistreat him.

We have decided not to take action against Enigma at the first turn when we had suspected that he cheated because we didn't have enough evidence. This has not changed. We know that he later tried to play honestly in his replay turn and the third turn when he was the turn player. The only real accusation right now is that he might have tried played ahead in the second turn when Maki was the turn player. While we didn't give Maki any punishment for her offense, I do not feel Enigma should be receiving this uncomparably harsh punishment. Especially when it is clear that he has realized his mistakes, apologized openly about his past offenses in the pbems (which cannot be used against him in the Demo game), he has stated in public that he will never do it again, and he wants to learn how to work with people in the demo game, and he realizes that his teamate will not support cheaters. In my mind, the most suitable discipline action for Engima is not to allow him to act as a turn player, but allow him to stay in the team.

However, I also understand that some players have indicated that they will leave if Enigma does not leave. The ACDG is already filled with animosity. Keeping Engima will not be a wise decision. Therefore as the moderator, the only decision you can make is to banish Enigma to appease the public.

My leaving the ACDG is a protest against the unfairness of the sociaty and the collective consciousness. Plus I have my personal reasons that you will read in my last log.

[Drogue]

Actually, I disagree about mistreating him. Maki's cheating was accidental. Enigma's was intentional. I wasn't sure he cheated on that first turn. Looking at the evidence now, and the fact he has said to me that he would cheat if needs be, I am sure he did cheat on the first turn. That is why I will remove him from the game. The other reasons, about playing ahead when Maki was playing, are more minor, but still cheating.

He has cheated twice, in this game. I do not see how he can continue, even without the uproar from others. Maki accidentally commited a cheat while trying to do something legal. The differences are that it happened once, it was unintentional, I was informed of it, and she doesn't have a history of cheating like Enigma. That's a huge list of differences. If anyone else did what Enigma has done, I'd do exactly the same thing. Enigma is not beign treated differently for any reason, and moreover, I am not prepared to keep him in, even without the public uproar, because that would be favouritism.

I understand why you feel you should leave, and I know this isn't about blackmail at all, but about your personal feelings about it. Personally, I feel it isn't a good idea, because, IMHO, the decision to ban EN temporarily is the right thing to do, and the only thing without showing favouritism. However it is, of course, entirely your decision, and I will support whatever you wish to do.

Thank you again for the help and support with the DG.

[Snowflake]

I agree with you Drogue, except I would not count that he has cheated twice.

He has not been given the warning the first time, because we were not sure. Every person deserves a chance to say he is sorry, and a chance to correct his mistakes.

What we are doing now, here and more so at the pbem community, is that we never send him the message what he is doing is wrong, and basically we continueously to allow him doing what he has been doing. And then we suddenly come out and list all of his past offenses and throw him away.

[Drogue]

He has been given many warnings in the past. I have personally warned him twice, a few months ago, after I first heard of him cheating in a PBEM. He has a chance, and this is a temporary thing, until people, most importantly, I, regain trust in him.

He needs to be shown he is wrong, you are correct. This should do it. When he realises not to cheat, he will be welcomed back by me.

I have PMed him to explain my ruling to him, and PMed Rah to have him removed from the Angels forum, as well as posting on the main forum.

[Kody]

Something very strange.

Someone called "bryan" has attempted to join the CMNs. No posts, PMs disabled and he appears to have settings so you can't find him on the apolyton membership roster.

bryan 11-07-2004 Pending

I tracked him down by looking, assuming he joined apolyton the same day he signed up for the CMNs. Then I looked for membership numbers that were missing in the listings for that day.

Finally found him.

http://apolyton.net/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=54633

Sent him the following email via the apolyton email feature.

Hello bryan,

I noticed you have attempted to join the CMNs in the ACDGIII at apolyton.net under the username "bryan". I would like to inform you that the CMNs are not a team, rather the administration branch of the game so you can't actually join that team.

It would be appreciated if you clicked the following link to clear the pending membership you are currently requesting.

http://apolyton.net/civgroups/?s=&action=leavegroup&civgroupid=61

If you are interested in joining one of the other teams you can post in this thread to express your interest. As you have never posted to the apolyton boards before it is unlikely for you to be accepted into one of the teams due to game security concerns until you do.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117584

[Kody]

Got an email back about my email.

Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

dejonesktz@livingston.com
SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO::
host mail2.livingston-europe.com [81.22.227.14]:
550 Sorry, This host does not relay mail

Looks like someone was hoping to hack into the CMNs private forum on the 11th this month... There really needs a facility to kick people.

[Method]

Then maybe we should pester markos about such a feature?