A SMAC team for the Civ IV about-to-be-set-up Democracy Team game?

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by binTravkin
And we could let Maniac manage an early circumnavigation effort to gain naval superiority if that +1 movement thing is true..

It is announced ingame, so why shouldn't it be true?

Originally posted by Mart7x5
Is that coz of chilled beer? so cruises can last longer?

Food stays longer stored perhaps?

[binTravkin]

Food stays longer stored perhaps?

Yes indeed, many ealry voyages were plagued by starvation and diseases caused by loss of crucial food resources.
Fish and other seaborne food were available in abundance for sailors, but they only make up a very small part of needed resource range for a human organismus.

[Vev]

So the lacking key food element is beer. Advanced techniques allowed ancient mariners to brew beer from fish.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
yeah - the galleys are somewhat limiting (and they can only hug coastal waters.

Caravels (but can't carry troops or settlers, only prophets, explorers, scouts, etc) have 3 movement points

Galleons (after discovering Astronomy) have 4, as do frigates (astronomy plus Chemistry)

So basically overseas expansion is impossible until late in the midgame?

[Mart]

In civ3 depending on version and mod, galleys could travel over seas (next to coast, but not ocean). We have also 1 less sea type tile in civ4. A technique was to "scout" seas in search for other continents by moving out by a tile into sea then going back to coast. "Jumping" was also possible, but risky. Few expansions I made this way.

If the map is engineered by a CMN, we might ask for coast bridges between continents, at least some of them in order to expand between then with galleys too. EuroAsia to Australia through todays Indonesia is a good possible example.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac


So basically overseas expansion is impossible until late in the midgame?

Oh, no

Galleys (coastal waters only, 2 mps) just need sailing

Caravels come quite early (exploration, can sail over oceans and are immune to other civ seaborders), They need Optics

Galleons come quite quickly after that - and can sail over oceans, but not enter rival civ's waters without triggering war. They need astronomy - just need to focus on these technologies: (and civ4 has multiple tech lines - so that one can research a tech from 2 predecessor ones, not dual prerequisites as is smac)

fishing >> sailing >>> calendar >>> astronomy

or

fishing >> sailing >> compass >> optics >> astronomy

Of course, going this tech route means that we'd be sacrificing others, such as religious ones, farming & animal husbandry, etc. so the strategic choice is always there to be made

Civs that start with fishing as one of their 2 start techs are:

• Americans
• English
• Greek
• Japanese
• Roman
• Spanish

[binTravkin]

fishing >> sailing >>> calendar >>> astronomy

I think this should be one of our first b-lines, maybe even second.
First we need to establish religion, for the benefits are BIG, then we can look around for what's useful.

In details:
1.Fishing:
If we get Greeks or Romans (and we really should), we have it.

2.Sailing:
If we try to put our cities by the sea, this is a good way to connect them (you don't even need a harbor), thus a high priority tech.

3.Calendar:
Not aware of it's uses.

4.Astronomy:
Here we are!

Although, when looking at the advanced tech tree at civFanatics, I noted that there's 2 arrows leading to Astronomy, only one of which is white (or an 'OR' arrow, the other is red - 'AND' arrow), thus we would need optics as well for astronomy by my understanding.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by mart7x5
Having some experience from play, I would recommend 2 things ..................

Mart - does this mean that you're signing up for the AC team?

[GeoModder]

It is more or less suicide to go for a shortcut path to an too expensive tech earlier in the game. Going for a cheaper tech and utilizing what it opens up for workers or city benefits brings us there only a little later.

What good does a bunch of galleons do when there are no adequate troops ready for an incursion on another continent?

And as the Greeks, it's close to impossible having one of the earlier religions (pending on the number of civs participating of course), especially if one or more of the other civs start with mysticism.

[binTravkin]

It is more or less suicide to go for a shortcut path to an too expensive tech earlier in the game. Going for a cheaper tech and utilizing what it opens up for workers or city benefits brings us there only a little later.

Ok, I just read the Vel's strategy thread and he suggests:

B-lining to bronzeworking,
and building
1.worker
2.settler

(the order is not his suggestion, but Sir Ralph's and he statistically showed why it's better)

And while building settler you chop down a forest or two thus rushing the settler by returned materials.

Good read!

[Mart]

Originally posted by Googlie


Mart - does this mean that you're signing up for the AC team?

Yes, I think the AC team will be one of the most dedicated to the play. And you kinda cannot decide your nationality. I'm too much into SMAC.

I may have more RAM soon. Just scouting the best option. It is not that expensive anymore, so horrors of playing on maps larger than Tiny would be behind me.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Although, when looking at the advanced tech tree at civFanatics, I noted that there's 2 arrows leading to Astronomy, only one of which is white (or an 'OR' arrow, the other is red - 'AND' arrow), thus we would need optics as well for astronomy by my understanding.

Yep. We'd need to research some 15 techs to get to Astronomy. And that list doesn't even include basics such as Agriculture.

[Maniac]

Btw, do pirates exist in Civ4?

[Mart]

I do not know that. I havent met any so far.

Spy can be made only in one city, where Scotland Yard is. Serious drawback.
Good thing is that they work better now. When you place a spy in a city of other civ, you can see the city as in SMAC.

Submarines can sail under ice!

There is no paratroopers. Serious drawback.

City defenses are now very strong.

I would forgot. Copters (gunships) now suffer serious sea sickness. No flying over water, though river crossing seems ok.

[GeoModder]

No pirates, except perhaps the odd barbarian galley.

It takes several turns, or a whole bunch of siege weapons, but city defenses can be lowered to even the odds of an attacker.

And indeed too bad about the paratrooper ability. I thought that would be one of the promotions.