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Voice of the Planet Special Issue #1: The Others
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Voice of the Planet Special Issue #1: The Others
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.ShawTags: None
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Data Angel investigation on the matter above has clearly shown that the Gaian Lord of Progress is a tad off for his estimations on how long the Progenitors were a dominant species in our galaxy. If even the whole galaxy was theirs.
The Gaian comprehension of how Progenitors handled large numbers is the basic of this error. Their time as a spacefaring species may be put down by a factor of hundred, although their 'civil war' was pretty close to the better part of an earth millennium.
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Response from our Lordship of Progress: The data does show Progenitors as sentient species are indeed milions of years old - minimum of ten milion years old. However, the physical appearance is not natural,there is clear evidence that Progenitors indeed have engineered their physical appearance long ago, and evolution could not result in some peculiarities of their xenobiology. Since their appearance has not changed a bit since then (one of peculiarities of their biology), we must assume that they had at least ten to twenty thousand years before that to develop themselves in their original form.
Backup for our hypothesis that their civilisation may be hundreds of milions year old, is our research on native lifeforms. There are substantial evidence of tampering with gene codes in most of xenolifeforms we found mostly in xenofungus (although fungal towers seem to be free from tampering). Since we have geological evidence that xenofungus is planet's dominant lifeform since the time of Lower Paleozoic (Lady Deirdre is working on this extensively), one of hypothesis suggests Progenitors did it. Since all data describes Manifolds with xenofungus ecosystem, we should assume that xenofungus was created by Progenitors. Even more, if we do not believe that and assume that xenofungus was born through evolution but tampered with, and transferred to other manifolds, then we must set the age of progenitors to a minimum of one hundred milion years, There is possibility that some other race did it, however there is no archeological evidence showing that any more advanced race existed. Also, it is unclear why is an M class planet orbiting a binary system - considering the rest of alpha system, it is unlikely for two M class planets to be in such near distance, especially since all research showed that even gas giants form with difficulties, and even then, they are the predominant type of planets populating solar neighbourhoods (although many rock based planets have been found). Since databases show that entire worlds were rebuilt, not only engineered but rebuilt, we should wonder if this planet is not of their working too, thus increasing their age tenfold. It is also noted, that Progenitors were on top of their technology already ten million of years ago, and since they were able to manipulate time-space continuum for trivial purposes, it is reasonable to assume that they held that level of technology for perhaps much longer than that.
There is evidence that shows that Progenitor civilisation is at least ten million years old and that last phase of the war lasted for only centuries (although there were millenias of minor skirmishes). However, Progenitor civilisation seems to be locked in unending circle of violent conflict (there is no record of truce between Caretakers and Usurpers ever) so it is likely that progenitors reduce their numbers to near extinction, then use alien artifacts from previous generations to rebuild themselves and then engage in brief centuries of warfare that result in total or near destruction. Their search for Manifolds (there is five of them besides this Planet) seems to be the only way to break this circle - if Usurpers were to find one of them, they would be able to ascend to goodhood (at possibly fatal consequences). Caretakers refer to an incident at yet undetermined manifold, where experiment went wrong and wrecked havoc on Progenitor empire, and intend to prevent any such attempts (we are not able to pinpoint the age of this incident, but we may assume that both factions formed or at least strongly manifested themselves after the Progenitors rebuilt themselves from this manifold accident). If Progenitors were not able to resolve this ideological conflict in millions of years, it is foolish to reduce civil war to timeframe in which is data shown by alien artifacts, and assume there were more strong violent episodes in Progenitor history.SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
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There is no dating method as today which can proof independently from the 'translated' records that Xenofungus was tampered with that long ago, as goes the same for the Progenitor constructs. Also, a sentient spacefaring race being stable for millions of years is wishfull thinking. Or they should have transcended long ago, or gone extinct.
Planets being 'rebuild' would show quite well in the geological make-up of Chiron, and as today no evidence for such has been found in Data Angel territory, despite the presence of geological 'malfunctions' in our territory. In such features there is more chance to discover such rebuilding, but again, this could not be confirmed by our geologists.
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We know that result of tampering with xenofungus was the failed cycle of leaps towards sentience of xenofungus -we know that there were at least two such cycles, and there is a hundred or so millions of years between them (joint work telepaths and xenobiologists reconstructed this data). Therefore, Progenitors must be at least a hundred years old if they tampered with xenofungus.
Angels are missing the point - Progenitors went to civil war over the issue of Manifold experiment which should have enabled them to transcend, after millions of years of tech stagnation that included only expansion. Whole division of the society was the result of question whether to transcend or not.
Our geologists have not found these evidence for rebuilding of planet either, however, since it is explicitly mentioned that Progenitors rebuild entire worlds, it is possible that Chiron did not only have suffered tampering with native lifeforms, but perhaps even larger planet reconstruction projects. Even then, evidence would be buried well beneath the surface, and Angels do not have the technology to reach to Mohorovièiæ discontinuity where this evidence might exist, if they are not hidden in Planet's crust, where it will be out of reach for everybody for a very long time.SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
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Originally posted by Maniac
Really great issue!
Btw, do the Gaians still use the archaic system of pounds and feet?
Since this is a public edition, not an internal VotP edition, and GAIA tells us that most of people on Planet origined from countries that used imperial system, every technical data is shown in this system forAmericansthem to understand easily.Last edited by Illuminatus; October 15, 2004, 14:58.SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
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It is not mentioned of proposed pré-sentient leap of the Xenofungus was triggered by the Progenitors in the past, for all we know it can be a natural phenonenom on which the Progenitors tried to work upon. After all, doesn't the scriptings mention that the very existence of the Caretakers is the halting of such a project if initiated, as to keep Planet pristine. This indicates that when the Usurpers went too far with their Transcendent experiments their civil war broke out. Why would that not have happened then in the previous cycle if the race is in the business of 'planet -and intelligence sculping' that long?
No, this is even more proof that the Progenitors were not around that long ago (100-200 eons ago).
They may or may not had a stable society untill the point their dispute about the 'Manifolds' started, but it is hardly possible that, looking at their technological remnants, they wouldn't have transcended the first time if that opportunity arose and an agreement about this matter was within their society.
And about our so-called lack of knowledge about the conditions on the Mohorovicic Discontinuity, I assure you we have probed deeper in this matter then the Gaians sofar.
Further more, closer examination on the appearantly most recent scriptings on a central located Monolith in our territory shows that the Progenitors were not that much spread out over our Galaxy. This Manifold, Chiron, is considered to be a rim world. On those world(s) were the Usurper faction the strongest, until the Caretakers who predominantly inhabited their core worlds (somewhere in the general direction of Ursa Majoris if our astronomists are correct). The main stars of the 'big dipper' constellation are about 60-70 lightyears away. This is hardly very far-flung seen in galactic standards.
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Even before civil war, there were ideological conflicts. Caretakers and Usurpers There is no mention that Usurpers started the Transcendence project - infact, Caretakers and Usurpers probably originate from original political factions that discussed what to do with their race after millions of years of stagnation. Strong proof that it was not Usurpers who started the experiment, is that Usurpers refer to experiment as science of the ancients - thus a significant period of rebuilding must have happened for Usurpers to refer to them as 'ancients'. Moreover, it is highly unlikely that xenofungus leap to transcendence is a natural occurence - although xenofungus probably evolved to be Planetspanning, there is absolutely no reason at all for neural pathways to be evolved in it. Every biologist will tell you that xenofungus was already dominant planet lifeform. There is no known predator that fed on fungus, and no overall threat to xenofungus (except cataclismic geological or meteore catastrophes). Why would then such a complex pattern appear in xenofungus? Only answer is that it is not product of evolution.Given the evidence on DNA code tweaking, it is likely that tendence for transcendence leaps was added to its gentic code, in greater plans of manifold experiment. Progenitors must have added that abbility, or modified structures that allowed creation of mind worm nervous system in transitions from xenofungus to mindworm. Adding Planetwide neural networksSince 'flowerings happened on Planet dozens of millions years before, and no mentioning of other advanced races, it is likely that Progenitors are that old.
Also, existence of Manifold Nexus (which sends signals to five other points in galaxy) is clear evidence of planet wide engineering of both native lifeforms and the planet itself. The Nexus itself was designed to be control center for planetary intelligence.
To answer Angel questions - why did Progenitors not transcend - there is explicit mentioning of previous 'flowering' that plunged Progenitors to chaos - this is the evidence why Caretakers attempt to keep Manifolds pristine - premature flowering leads them to belief that the experiment is too dangerous - this is the event that probably led to direct military conflict between two factions. Why did not one faction win for so long? Constant cycles of wars perhaps? It is known that trillions of sentients and entire planets were destroyed in conflict - which would probably reduce both faction to ruins, losing much of their technological knowledge. Survivors would have to rediscover their technology, rebuild their infrastructure, increase their numbers, and then seek their rivals again, in order to proceed with conflict. We cannot tell how much data would be lost in that time, but enough has been lost to ever attempt recontruction of one of the manifolds - which prevents them to transcend without finding one of original Manifolds. There is no reason to believe that this process isn't cyclical and hasn't repeated for several times. Indeed, the very nature of Progenitors (especially Caretakers) makes them passive to greater changes. We can assume that whenever Usurpers are close to transcending to godhood by discovering one of manifolds, Caretakers nearly destroy them, or failed flowering happens (this happened at least once).
Also, Angels still fail to recognize the fact that there was no agreement between Progenitors - Caretakers and Usurpers never reached truce, thus never reaching agreement amd thus preventing them to transcend easily - there is no evidence that initial manifolds were constructed by 'ancients' (as Progenitor refer to their ancestors) by agreement of overall society.
Regarding your comment, you still don't have technology to indenpendently explore discontinuity unlike Gaians . You are merely probing at Progenitor works (yet again Boreholes that withstood geological movements for thousands and millions of years).
Your interpretation of scriptings is clearly wrong, since if Usurpers inhabited Manifold(s), they would surely transcended before. Moreover, if they inhabited one of neighbouring worlds, they would find it within months or years of their search (having ability to manipulate spacetime itself). Also, they would have found Earth, and given their intolerance for lower species would have colonised it or meddled with life severly, preventing humans from developing. Far flugness of their empire is supported by the fact that Usurpers never visited Earth, as well the fact they would have easily found all manifolds within short time if Progenitors inhabit space of mere 150 lightyears in diameter. Although it is true that Usurpers, as rebel faction inhabited outer reaches of galaxy, Progenitor could simply not have inhabited such a small space within a period of minimum ten milion years - it is simply implausible even given the terrible consequences of their civil war. Manifolds are explicitly mentioned to be far-flung in space (although not equally spread through galaxy which indicates that one of other manifolds may be relatively near in astronomical terms), and hard for both factions to find. Moreover, Caretakers would have to be near them or actively searching the same area to prevent Usurpers from finding them. Our exploration of text has pinpointed only Tau Ceti as one of places of inhabitation, however it is to see if this system is still inhabited. however mentioning of trillions of sentients, far flung manifolds, mentioning of homeworlds scattered through uspace and evidence of planet wide engineering, it is our conclusion that Progenitors explored or inhabited most of this galaxy, if they've not have visited others, given their abbility for manipulating the spacetime continuum.SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
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