Planetary Council Motion

[Octavian X]

Hmm...

This should be interesting. I'm sorry, but it appears the original intent of this motion to have been clouded. I feel, at this point, we should be demanding the immeadiate return of all PEACE bases, along with some other outrageous demands involving the handover of techs by the CPU to PEACE.

Of course, I don't know if you, Chairman, were planning another course of more subtle action. My suggestions only stand if our plan is to still ignite war between Hive-Drones and the CPU as soon as possible.

[t_ras]

I'd say let press on them for cease fire and negotiations and then we can attack and surprise them.

We dont have to be nice, we are the hive!

[Snowflake]

If they are willing to cease fire then PEACE can live a little longer. However we will do whatever according to plan.

[t_ras]

by Maniac
PEACE talks part I
Greetings Chairman Voltaire, Ambassador Jamski and Former Operator t_ras,

(My message was too long so I had to split it in two)

Despite what I assumed after Octavian X posted his Planetary Council thread, it seems that the Hive would not yet have decided whether or not to declare war with CPU, and thus that diplomacy isn't yet pointless. Therefore I would like to react on a chat Voltaire had with Drogue, of which Drogue posted a summary in our private forum.

To begin with, apparently Voltaire feels the CPU upsets the balance between Hive, Drones and us, that you feel threatened and that CPU wishes to destroy the Hive. I would ask why you think so? At first, what can be more balanced than three factions of roughly equal power? Second, this year the Drones have become more powerful than the Hive and probably CPU, thus technically you should feel more threatened by them. Third, despite asking numerous times, I still haven't received a reply as to why some Hiveans think CPU has aggressive intentions towards the Hive and would want to destroy you. I'd say it's the opposite: we have the impression the Hive wants to destroy us at all costs, while we just want live in peace and safety now our archenemy PEACE can no longer threaten us.

Another point Voltaire mentioned is that a lot of this tension would have come from Hive feelings that some CPU members are anti-Hive, and that Voltaire thinks I am not pro-Hive, and so is scared that with me being Prime Function CPU is likely to go to war against the Hive.
First, if you think some CPU members are anti-Hive due to the 3D roleplay, I'd say it's just that: roleplay. Also a lot of that roleplay is not the consequence of CPU members supposedly wanting to attack the Hive (as our poll this year on whether or not to declare war on you shows), but instead of the Hive breaking pact and all your other anti-CPU actions.
Second, I'm not per definition pro or anti any faction. I just pragmatically judge who is willing to cooperate with us and base my opinion on that. So how do you expect me to think about the Hive if I offer a Hive-PUT pact, tech trades and ask what caused the bad Hive-CC relations lately, and the reply I get is a severance of the Hive-CC pact and Hive cooperation with our enemies? I'm perfectly willing to cooperate as much as you want with the Hive, but the initiative lies in your court: we have made repeated attempts to cooperate; it's the Hive that keeps refusing.

End of Part I

PEACE talks part II
I suggest we move to the issue of PEACE. Below is my proposal. The main line of this proposal is CPU security and safety.

1> We have the ability to eliminate PEACE. But we are willing to allow PEACE to survive, as long as they aren't in our immediate vicinity. Our security concept can't allow a hostile faction remaining in our immediate vicinity. I guess the Hive destroying all Angel defences in Conshelf 57 and the remaining PEACE ship taking that base is the best possibility.

2> Crossbone Way comes under CPU control or is deconstructed voluntarily by PEACE.
Just like you can't tolerate a CPU base on that island near the Hive mainland, we can't tolerate a PEACE base in the middle of our sphere of influence.

3> CPU, Hive and PEACE should agree to the sphere of influence I proposed in the Council thread:
quote:
(32.46), (34.40), (36.38), (42.38), (43.37) and the two islands between those coordinates become a demilitarized zone.
Everything northwest of that is Hive/PEACE territory, and everything southeast of that is CPU territory.
Any unit of any faction which trespasses the DMZ or enters the territory of the other faction, is considered in violation of the treaty and may be destroyed.


4> We will retreat that colony pod from the DMZ island mentioned above as soon as possible, and not found a base there.

5> Hive and PEACE should withdraw their units as soon as possible from our sphere of influence as described under point 3.

6> No new CPU/Hive/PEACE bases can be founded within 16 squares of an existing CPU/Hive/PEACE base.

7> The Hive should show signs to be more willing again to cooperate with CPU, meaning for example a re-signing of our pact (the best way to ensure no one has hostile intentions towards each other) or a trade of technologies. That way we have a reason not to give in to the requests of the Angels to declare war on you.

8> If PEACE survives, the main advantage you get is a free vote in the Planetary Council. We would like assurances you won't abuse that. Therefore we propose a CPU veto right on all Council motions except all the official in-game ones. This is to prevent you can propose any motion in the out-of-game Council you want, and CPU being outvoted 3 to 2 every time. I would propose a similar veto right for the Hive and Drones to make things equal.

If your intention is not to destroy CPU, but really only is your own security, this seems to me a good deal for the Hive. So I hope you will see the rationality in it and accept it.

I should also mention there is a growing group of CPU members (me among them - I don't really care if we win this game - second or third is good for me as well) who, if you declare war on us, want to surrender immediately to the Drones and support them gaining a solo victory. CPU wouldn't win this way, but at least we'd probably end the game with our faction more or less intact, and we wouldn't have to spend months fighting for a lost cause.

Friendly greetings,

Mani Alpha-3

i wanted to confused him a litle to gain time so i answered this :

RE: PEACE talks part II
at first sight looks good. but dont quot me, i'd have to talk to the others.

any way I AM concerned about CPU unification and the military posibilies of that

if we're planning to begin war this turn it doesn't matter, but if he'll still have a turn first we might as well be positive and say yes.

PS:
with his mention of surrendering to drones he has just made me think diferent about merging drones and hive...just some thing to think about (and better do it fast).

[Snowflake]

Well this goes without saying but their request is outrageous. They expanded through war while others peacefully occupies whatever land it had before. Then they want a DMZ on that so they can sleep on their new land without worrying anybody get it back.

And then they want a CPU veto on any motion. I mean what else can you do other than to laugh at that? If you guys can keep the talk for one more turn if we are not ready to strike yet that's good, but don't show them that we are so easy to be bullied.

[t_ras]

if we're planning to attack any way and we're just doing it to gain time it doesnt matter.
if we do need this extra turn thn jumski or voltair will have to do some extended talking wiht them and PEACE and meaby even "begin" all the procces as requested by CPU.

[Mead]

Originally posted by HongHu
Well this goes without saying but their request is outrageous. They expanded through war while others peacefully occupies whatever land it had before. Then they want a DMZ on that so they can sleep on their new land without worrying anybody get it back.

And then they want a CPU veto on any motion. I mean what else can you do other than to laugh at that? If you guys can keep the talk for one more turn if we are not ready to strike yet that's good, but don't show them that we are so easy to be bullied.

They are buying for time to Kill us. The more time they get to be closer to choppers and drop, and the more time they get to start making use of all their new bases, the more likely our defeat.

Attack now.


Mead

[t_ras]

i agree, attack now!

[Snowflake]

You need to persuade buster about that. I don't want us to go in alone and risk lose all of our force to an enemy probe. If you are sure that we don't have that risk, then by all means attack.

[Arnelos]

*bump*

I should mention that I was chatting with MrWhereItsAt, a CyCon member (who is on several of my Civ3 DG teams), about Civ3 ISDG issues and the conversation strayed to the ACDG for a short period. I intentionally dropped into the conversation that I thought that Voltaire's Planetary Council motion was stupid. I did so in order to cury favor and hopefully give the impression that the issue of hostility between the Hive and the CPU was not yet a done deal (the objectives lined out earlier in this thread regarding the impression we should be making toward the CyCon). It seemed to have the intended effect, as MrWIA related that his team was worried that their military campaign against the PEACE had probably raised jitters among Hive and Drones more than they had thought about while they were busy gobbling up PEACE bases. They would very much like to avoid a war. The statement by me was truthful, seeing as I really don't think it was wise to do the planetary council motion... of course, MrWIA does not need to know that the reason for my opinion is that I felt it blows our surprise rather than that I or anyone else in the Hive actually want peace with CyCon. He can come to his own conclusions and obviously did.

Apparently, MrWIA, with the joyous hope that perhaps the Hive might be ammenable afterall, posted a short snipet of that piece of the conversation to the CC forum. This apparently sent Tassadar into an epileptic ceisure and he yanked MrWIA's post and closed the thread. He then apparently went ballistic at laurentius for the CyCon trying to solicit information from Hive members again (the history of which Kody filled me in on several days ago, btw... so I know about that).

When I got a chance to explain the situation to Tassadar, I think he realized relatively quickly that the situation was not what he thought it was. To begin with, MrWIA was not trying to solicit information from me for the purpose of getting me to make critical leaks - not only does he have more integrity than that, but he knows me well enough from other DG's that I'm very good at that game. Secondly, I knew exactly what I was doing. As I put it to Tassadar, if there's a sneaky b*stard between MrWIA and myself, it's undoubtedly me and not him.

Point is, since I happened to be in chat with him and the ACDG happened to come up, I figured I'd just keep up what it seems that Jamski and I agreed in this thread was the right line to take: Be as friendly as possible with CyCon members you happen to talk to until the war actually starts.

[Frankychan]

Hmmm,

Things are starting to sound very interesting. I like how you "politick" Comrade Arnelos. But despite Almighty Comrade Tassadar's removal, I think the seeds have been sown for mass confusion.

I also agree that the CPU proposal is utter nonsense. They decide to gobble up the territory of another faction, and when they have their fill, want to change the rules so none of US do what they did. That's crap. I think the CPU opened up the floodgates and weren't aware of the flood it would cause (mainly, the Drones and Hive wanting a piece of THEIR territory).

Point is, so long as the Drones get their share and we get ours, then the rest of their political babble is nonsense.