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**Jamski** · December 30, 2003, 20:21

We have probably 24-48 hours. I suppose we COULD hold the turn a bit, in this instance.

Ok... one moment... need to think...

-Jam

**Voltaire** · December 30, 2003, 20:27

Comrade Mean I commend you on your activity and participation in this discussion and debate. We need more active members such as yourself to partake in the government of the Human Hive.

You should be aware that Comrade Kody, our head administration responsible for the glory of the Human Hive itself, sees our chances of downfall or decline as infinitesimal, and that this decision in his eyes is not that crucial. Nevertheless it must be made, even if it is not of vital importance to the Human Hive itself, we need to come to a consensus.

We do not even know if we’re entering the CyCon-PEACE War, in fact I see no reason why we need to get involved and sacrifice our resources and the lives of our soldiers and citizens in a foreign conflict. We have no obligation to either side to join the war. We have not promised them that we will assist them if they go to war.

As for the Drones, we are in permipact with this, till the end (or so we hope). Regardless of their power our relationship with the Drones has been a long and fruitful one, we have proven our loyalty to them, and they theirs to us. I think it save to assume that they will not betray the permipact for the time being.

You are very correct in stating that if we do join this war we need to benefit form it. Not only as a result of the conquest which we will surely gain, but more importantly the factions who want us to join their side should offer us something in return for our troubles.

Comrade Kody’s confident that we face no great danger, though at this time we are not ready to partake in war and should concentrate on other endeavors such as research.

-Chairman Voltaire

**Jamski** · December 30, 2003, 20:35

We already ARE involved. The current situation is that the CyCon is at war with us and the Pirates. We have a pact with the Pirates. That's pretty involved.

-Jam

**Jamski** · December 30, 2003, 20:37

Also, I share Mead's misgivings about the Drones. They are big, and getting bigger. What happens when we reach the point where we are just the Drones toy?

-Jam

**Kody** · December 30, 2003, 21:10

sees our chances of downfall or decline as infinitesimal

No our chances of downfall or decline isn't really tied up with diplomancy with of the peace or the cycon anymore. Mainly it's tied up with the drones, and how well we run our turns.

**Jamski** · December 30, 2003, 21:12

We're still stuffed if the Pirates and Uni and Roze all tried to invade at once. We have no millitary at all.

-Jam

**Octavian X** · December 30, 2003, 22:51

There's the solution: build a military.

Either way, I will state that I am dissatisfied with Kody's stance. It's still very possible that one of the other factions, Drones included, are building up a huge force to wipe us out in one sweep while we're feeling cocky about ourselves. Readiness is essential for all the Hive.

**Jamski** · December 30, 2003, 22:55

I'm glad to see my paranoia is spreading. I must say the Hive is looking like a lot of scout patrols at the moment. Anyone with impact weapons could eliminate us before we knew what was going on.

-Jam

**Vev** · December 31, 2003, 22:46

Originally posted by Voltaire
Comrade Mean I ...

-Chairman Voltaire

*psst* You may wish to reword that ...

**Kody** · December 31, 2003, 23:29

We have infiltration of every human faction now, either through probe or pact.

Drones have promised us +3 armor next turn. This was what I've been waiting for, and purposefully reduced the number of scout patrols we built so we could build more +3 armor defenders. The first of these will probably come online in turn 2153.

So far the university has less defences than we do currently.

Cycon while having a good attack force, still need to continue building war units if they are to defeat the peace. They don't have enough weapons to make a big enough dent in the hive once we get the +3 armor, half their weapons are crusiers (hence cannot take over any of our core bases) and travel time means we will easily be able to defend against what they currently have if they send it our way right now.

The peace looks like they're going to put up a fight, after I looked at thier infiltration data. If they had the HEC plasma armor and impact weapons available to them I think they would probably be able to throw the cycon back. However, lacking those defences it looks like the peace will lose a few of it's core bases. Whether they recover enough to beat back the cycon is unknown, but still a possibility at this early stage of the war.

Drones have built no attack troops. Although they have been building defensive units and using them for police purposes. At the moment their concentration has been focused on pop booming, and keeping drones under control. Building an army right now would be rather dumb for the drones as they will be much more powerful economically in another couple of turns.

What I'm more concerned about is making it so the cards fall our way with MMI. If we can do things right we may be able to get first dibs on cloudbase, and perhaps cyborg factory. I have a strong suspicion that if we let the drones get MMI first we can wave goodbye to cloudbase, pact or no pact. They got WP and we got second choice on SPs, so I'm hoping that we can turn the tables this time around. As long as we don't hinder the drones, or waste serious amounts of resources doing this I think the drones will understand. This means preparing the crawlers and the economy over the next couple of years, so we can take the SPs efficiently.

**Mead** · January 1, 2004, 01:12

Originally posted by Kody
We have infiltration of every human faction now, either through probe or pact.

Who are we Pacted with whom we have not infiltrated?

Originally posted by Kody

Drones have promised us +3 armor next turn. This was what I've been waiting for, and purposefully reduced the number of scout patrols we built so we could build more +3 armor defenders. The first of these will probably come online in turn 2153.

Are we supposed to get missiles as well?

Originally posted by Kody
The peace looks like they're going to put up a fight, after I looked at thier infiltration data. If they had the HEC plasma armor and impact weapons available to them I think they would probably be able to throw the cycon back. However, lacking those defences it looks like the peace will lose a few of it's core bases. Whether they recover enough to beat back the cycon is unknown, but still a possibility at this early stage of the war.

Once we get plasma armor can we trade it them for some good tech plus, perhaps, cash? We want them to survive right? We do not want CyCon to get too powerful right?

Would trading that stuff to them tick off the Drones, or might it allow them to get some SPs that we want? Is the armor something we just do not want to share with anyone else?

***

Originally posted by Kody
What I'm more concerned about is making it so the cards fall our way with MMI. If we can do things right we may be able to get first dibs on cloudbase, and perhaps cyborg factory. I have a strong suspicion that if we let the drones get MMI first we can wave goodbye to cloudbase, pact or no pact. They got WP and we got second choice on SPs, so I'm hoping that we can turn the tables this time around. As long as we don't hinder the drones, or waste serious amounts of resources doing this I think the drones will understand. This means preparing the crawlers and the economy over the next couple of years, so we can take the SPs efficiently.

With the number of crawlers we now have plus the ones we will make in the next few turns we should be able to get both the Cyborg Factory plus Cloudbase in the same turn, if we get the necessary tech in time.

Mead

**Kody** · January 1, 2004, 03:47

Originally posted by Mead

Who are we Pacted with whom we have not infiltrated?

Are we supposed to get missiles as well?

Once we get plasma armor can we trade it them for some good tech plus, perhaps, cash? We want them to survive right? We do not want CyCon to get too powerful right?

Would trading that stuff to them tick off the Drones, or might it allow them to get some SPs that we want? Is the armor something we just do not want to share with anyone else?

***
With the number of crawlers we now have plus the ones we will make in the next few turns we should be able to get both the Cyborg Factory plus Cloudbase in the same turn, if we get the necessary tech in time.
Mead

Pacted with cycon, pirates and drones.
Infiltrated University and pirates.

The drones don't have missiles prototyped yet, so it'll be a bigger ask to get missiles. They already have plasma armor prototyped.

Trading +3 armor around may tick the drones off, not sure. We still need to finalise what our relations with the cycon are. The cycon were definiately in on what happened. The stance towards the pirates is dependant on what we decide with the cycon.

The problem is a large number of the crawlers we have currently are in use. We definiately need to keep all the crawlers on condensor farm nut bonuses that are feeding our population. Also 2 crawlers dedicated to crawling the 2 energy bonuses, also 4 crawler dedicated to crawling mineral bonuses.

That doesn't leave enough crawlers around to instant build those SPs. In addition crawlers only move 1 move per turn. That means all those crawlers would need to be drawn in from all the far reaches of our empire.

_____________________________________

New information, I ran some tests, the data angels pose a serious threat to our terraforming.

In the map editor the two ships bombarded the bases. I tried building a laser skimship and attacking. It had even odds (50%), if the ship won then the 2nd ship attacked and destoried our ship.

The other problem is the AI appears to be able to bombard 2 squares away even if they haven't revealed the those squares. There's just too many squares to protect with units. We may have to settle for losing a large portion of our terraforming at New Moscow. The possibility I can see is building 2 laser skimships and a children's creche. However, that will take a long time and all our terraforming may be gone by all that finishes.

I'll check to see if the drones are willing to build a missile trooper for us so we can get the prototype off them. If they're able then we'll be able to build two ships and hopefully take out those pesky data angel ships.

**Kody** · January 1, 2004, 03:58

I think I figured out something that may work will need to do additional tests though.

Just curious if anyone can come up with the same solution or a better one.

**Enigma_Nova** · January 1, 2004, 11:15

You mean rushing a 2-1-1 artie moving it one square up and bombarding?

EDIT: We don't have Polymorphic. Better make that a 2-1-4.

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