Planetary University Bureau

[Maniac]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Start the HC this turn, we can always delay the AC hurry a bit.

Ok. Start the HC, or start ánd hurry it, so it's already finished next year?

edit PUB orders:

Ok thanks.

Btw, I thought that you planned to let more boreholes be mined by Sunshine Coast?

My idea was indeed to let Sunshine Coast work the 3 boreholes. Problem is Sunshine only has 2 citizens now so therefore I thought about first maximizing nutrient production there to let it grow to size 3 and only then switch to the boreholes.

What cost? I'm not proposing to hurry that production (for now). Just let it start.

There is the maintenance cost of 3 credits per year. As a consequence for the 2 nuts we'd gain we'd probably have to pay 2 credits per year (not 3 as the tree farm would give a +50% economy bonus). Hardly a profit thus.
Also for the same mineral cost of a tree farm we would probably be able to build for example 3 crawlers and 2 formers. These would most likely give us a bigger profit than a tree farm.
We would also start getting that profit much earlier than when building a tree farm: eg while the tree farm would still be in mid-production, there could already be a few formers or crawlers running around doing terraformations or harvesting minerals. That's called "comparative turn advantage" IIRC among SMAC vets.
And due the stockpile energy bug it's in general better to build several small things than one large thing. Eg in my example above with 3 crawlers and 2 formers compared to a tree farm, Daintree would get five times more profit of the stockpile energy bug.
These are the reasons why I will usually argue against starting large production projects unless we can hurry them immediately.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Maniac
Ok. Start the HC, or start ánd hurry it, so it's already finished next year?

Just start, we got 2 turns, so let use them for saving some ec's.

Originally posted by Maniac
There is the maintenance cost of 3 credits per year. As a consequence for the 2 nuts we'd gain we'd probably have to pay 2 credits per year (not 3 as the tree farm would give a +50% economy bonus). Hardly a profit thus.
Also for the same mineral cost of a tree farm we would probably be able to build for example 3 crawlers and 2 formers. These would most likely give us a bigger profit than a tree farm.
We would also start getting that profit much earlier than when building a tree farm: eg while the tree farm would still be in mid-production, there could already be a few formers or crawlers running around doing terraformations or harvesting minerals. That's called "comparative turn advantage" IIRC among SMAC vets.
And due the stockpile energy bug it's in general better to build several small things than one large thing. Eg in my example above with 3 crawlers and 2 formers compared to a tree farm, Daintree would get five times more profit of the stockpile energy bug.
These are the reasons why I will usually argue against starting large production projects unless we can hurry them immediately.

Maniac, your explaining is making me . Anyway, you seem to forget that about all possible places were crawlers can do most good, are already in use. Also, I'm not proposing to slow produce it, just that it starts and after a few turns when (hopefully) all RC's in CyCon are finished, then to hurry it. Even that amount of turns is barely enough to build a crawler in Daintree, thus making your explanation a bit overdone. Besides, as Daintree continues to grow, it will generate more ec's as well, nullifying the loss of that in due time.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Just start, we got 2 turns, so let use them for saving some ec's.

Okay. In that case though we'll have enough credits to hurry the AC at Sunshine Coast. Since we'll get enough cash again to do all we want in the CC turn, there's no reason not to spend all our cash on PUT production this turn.

Maniac, your explaining is making me

Anyway, you seem to forget that about all possible places were crawlers can do most good, are already in use.

I know. I was just using a crawler as a generic example. My point is simply that about any production item is better than a tree farm at the moment in Daintree. So you can replace the crawlers in my example by colony pods, more formers etc...
A tree farm will at the moment only give an annual +2 nuts gain, and probably an annual 2 credit cost. So as far as I see we won't gain anything from a tree farm at the moment.

Also, I'm not proposing to slow produce it, just that it starts and after a few turns when (hopefully) all RC's in CyCon are finished, then to hurry it.

But we could spend those credits on projects that will give a much higher return. Even after all the rec commons are built, there will still be quite a few very useful things left to build on that list I compiled in the IAF's thread a while ago, things that give a much higher profit.

Besides, as Daintree continues to grow, it will generate more ec's as well, nullifying the loss of that in due time.

Then why not wait with building a tree farm until Daintree has grown, and a tree farm will indeed have become profitable? As far as I see there's no point in constructing facilities that don't give us a profit yet, while many can be built at the moment that do.

[GeoModder]

*sigh*

Ok, this issue seems important to you. Does a Research Hospital sounds as music in your ears then?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Ok, this issue seems important to you. Does a Research Hospital sounds as music in your ears then?

You seem to want at all costs build a facility in Daintree. I don't understand why. To explain why I so strongly argue against: Daintree is only a rather unproductive size 2 base. At the moment with its low mineral and energy production there isn't any facility that is worth building there, besides perhaps a recycling tanks. But even for recycling tanks there are many bases where it would be more profitable to build tanks there first - due to those other bases having a higher mineral production bonus (and thus gain more from the stockpile energy bug). So as far as I see Daintree would be best used to construct relatively cheap units, such as formers, colony pods, crawlers or probe teams.

[Impaler[WrG]]

ok Here are some more refined Internal Orders for University.

Cairns - New Production Crawler
Gold Coast - No Change
Garden Point - Start Hab Complex, make the worker on the Sea Energy Bonus a Doctor to slow growth.
Kelvin - Plasma Garrison (I would Recomend a Missle Rover though)
Carseldine - Plasma Garrison (again though I prefer Missle Rovers as their better counter attackers). Switch worker from the Bore Hole to the 2/1/2 farm.
Cape York - Hurry 16 Credits
DaineTree - Crawler or Military unit (can be changed later if desired)
Cabooluture - Hurry 10 Credits
Townsville - No Change
Long Reach - Hurry 20 Credits
Sunshine - Hurry 80 Credits, switch worker from farm to the now free BoreHole. Will be completed next turn.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Garden Point - Start Hab Complex, make the worker on the Sea Energy Bonus a Doctor to slow growth.

Why slow down growth? The hab complex will be finished just before the base grows, so there shouldn't be any problem.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Oh yes Construction is resolved before growth *slaps forehead*

[Impaler[WrG]]

In response to Geo's Request for sensor locations.

Building sensors far out on the tips of University land (75/27) and (82/26) may seem like a good idea as it would extend our sensor range further into the Sea.

But Consider - The Drones have bases at (80/10) and (74/10) rougly 10 spaces from our northern Coastal Bases. They will fly their aircraft down in a single turn, their will be no units sitting around in the middle of the Sea for us to detect with these sensors. The only advantage they give us is the +25% defence Bonus which they can do much further south ware they can be constructed faster and are less likly to be captured or destroyed by incoming forces. We have crawlers that can begin building imediatly ware they are, moving them north will delay the sensors several turns.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
In response to Geo's Request for sensor locations.

Why not do both? Bases are protected at first, and when the new formers are finished, let's extend the network north then?

[Maniac]

Is there already a consensus on former orders? If not, I'd plan to do this:
former (78.46): plant forest
former (83.35): go NE to build road&mine
former (87.31): go to (86.28)

And here are my crawler plans for this year:

Carseldine crawler (83.31): move one tile N. Goal is to rehome to Sunshine next year to maximize nut output there.
Sunshine crawler (83.29): move to (80.32) and harvest minerals.
Sunshine crawler (80.32): move to (76.34) and harvest nutrients.
Daintree crawler (76.34): move to (80.34) and harvest minerals. Next year I'd plan to switch places with the crawler on (83.35).
Gardens Point crawler (80.34): move one tile NE and harvest minerals.

Gardens Crawler (79.39): rehome to Kelvin Grove and come back to do the same job.
Gardens crawler (78.38): move to (81.39) and harvest minerals
Kelvin crawler (81.39): move to (78.38) and harvest minerals
Goal of these three crawler actions is to boost the mineral output of Kelvin Grove, so we'll gain more "stockpile energy bug"-credits when the plasma garrison is finished. Next year I'd propose to rehome a few of those crawlers back to Gardens Point when the hab complex is about to be finished.

As for worker changes, I've moved a Gardens Point worker to the monolith. That way we get +2 psych (extra talent) and we don't need to appoint a doctor.
Also I've switched the workers on (86.30) and (78.31) between Sunshine Coast and Longreach. As a consequence the psych production of Sunshine dropped by 1 (but we don't need psych there anyway), but on the positive side our labs production in Longreach increased by 1.2

This is the current midsave. I have hardly moved anything yet though.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=3088_ACDG-PUT-2159mid.zip

[GeoModder]

Ok, build a sensor on 86,28 then, but I insist on one on 83,27 or 82,26 later...

For the rest, PUB civil units are Impaler's department, ask him thus.

[Maniac]

Two little requests:

1) Could Townsville production please be changed to a ~1-1-1, <1>-1-1 or 1x-1-1? The goal is to create a unique unit which we can upgrade in the Unit Workshop to a drop unit after we get MMI next year. That drop unit is necessary to make contact with the CyCon, and thus fix the bug that currently prevents us from transferring PUT air units to CyCon.

2) Could I please ask not to hurry the CP at Longreach? Building a CP will for quite a while reduce our production with 2 nuts, 1 mins and 4.8 labs, so I'd say there are more lucrative projects to invest our credits in, eg all those rec commons in CyCon.

[GeoModder]

Both are ok for me, but I thought it would been cheaper to produce a drop unit next turn in Carseldine. That's mostly why I like to make a Garrison their this turn, so it is free to produce a drop unit in MY 2160.

And that cp in Longreach has no urgency for me. Especially since the Daintree cp will be on it's way the next 4 turns or so.

[GeoModder]

PUB military production orders:

Townsville: probably lost, but if not, SAM unit.
Cape York: probably lost, but if not, SAM unit.
Gold Coast: might be lost, but if not, garrison.
Sunshine Coast: should survive attack, interceptor.
Longreach: SAM unit.
Carseldine: SAM missile rover
Daintree: change production to SAM unit
Gardens Point: change production to interceptor
Kelvin Grove: hurry production if sufficient fundings
Cairns: SAM missile rover
Caboolture: not sure, probe team, Aerospace Complex for last standing base or SAM missile rover.

Unit movements:

I suggest moving as much formers as possible in bases for reinforcing them.
The cp near Carseldine could be moved in that base so that production goes faster.

Research:

I don't know if it's possible, but a joint beeline to Superstring Theory sounds the best choice now.
Can anyone tell me what the choices will be for the next research project?