Obtaining Our Next Secret Project

[Impaler[WrG]]

The purpose of this thread is obvious so lets get going

Our next project will likly be the Planetary Energy Grid, Citizens Defence Force, Cloud Base Acadamy or Cyborg Factory. All of these cost the same (30 rows of mins) except for CBF which is 40. We need to start planning how we are going one of these in then next 8-10 turns as the Hive has expressed interest in a trade for Adaptive Econ before the year 2160 and we cant be shure they will honor an agreement NOT to build the PEG.


My initial recomendation is to build 8-10 Crawlers in our Core Bases and converge them all on a Central Base and cash them all for the Project along with some Energy to Hurry it (and hurry the crawlers too).

To help achive this we may wish to alocate 10-20% Pych before we take FM. I know I have spoken out against Pych alocation in the past but I noticed that it will alow us to delay the production of HoloGram Theathers in PiSquare, Apolyton Prime and Logic Loop with a coresponding incresse in mineral colection for all the reduced Doctors, Each Holo Theather we put off will be the equivilent of 2 Crawlers. These Bases along with Portal and Zetaris could then move directly into Crawler Production and each could turn out on average 3 Crawlers in the required span of time. All together this should be more then sufficient to produce a Secret Project of our choice in 8-10 turns.

If anyone knows other clever ways to build the projects faster please speak up so we may begin planning.

[Drogue]

Simple. Trade with Hive not to build PEG as long as we don't build Ascetic Virtues. I'd go for the crawlers, but with upgrade. Build one trance/synth crawler, and upgrade all before cashing. Job done

And go for PEG, but if we get CBA first, change to that (especially with non-build pledge). Then go fro PEG, then CF and then CDF. CDF would be nice, but is of little use to the Hive. If the Drones get it, be worried, but air units bypass it, and with the CBA we will use air units a lot, along with drop units, IMHO.

[Maniac]

I checked out the options we have with upgrading crawlers:
A normal crawler is three mineral rows.
A 0-3-1 crawler is six mineral rows and costs 80 credits to upgrade.
A 0-3t-1 crawler is nine mineral rows and costs 110 credits to upgrade.
This indicates the importance of the trance ability if we want to use upgraded crawlers to hurry SPs. For 30 credits we get 3 mineral rows more than a normal 0-3-1, which isn't worth the upgrade cost IMHO. But for a 0-3t-1 we'd get 6 mineral rows more than a normal crawler for 110 credits. Depending on our SE Industry rating, that's about one mineral for every 2 credits. That's half the price we would pay if we hurried the SP directly with credits.

I also agree with Drogue our priority should be: 1> CBA 2> PEG 3> CF 4> CDF.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
I checked out the options we have with upgrading crawlers:
A normal crawler is three mineral rows.
A 0-3-1 crawler is six mineral rows and costs 80 credits to upgrade.
A 0-3t-1 crawler is nine mineral rows and costs 110 credits to upgrade.
This indicates the importance of the trance ability if we want to use upgraded crawlers to hurry SPs. For 30 credits we get 3 mineral rows more than a normal 0-3-1, which isn't worth the upgrade cost IMHO. But for a 0-3t-1 we'd get 6 mineral rows more than a normal crawler for 110 credits. Depending on our SE Industry rating, that's about one mineral for every 2 credits. That's half the price we would pay if we hurried the SP directly with credits.

Actually, it's a lot less than half the costs, IIRC. I usually find it costs about 300ec of crawler upgrades plus one turn of build to build a 30 row SP. That's a lot less than the ~1500ec cost of building it after one turn. Even just upgrading to a 0-3-1 is a good idea IMHO, but trance is by far the best to do it with.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Drogue
Even just upgrading to a 0-3-1 is a good idea IMHO

Really? Assuming we are under +2 Industry, we would only gain 24 extra minerals for 80 credits upgrading cost. Rather expensive IMO.

Anyway, to have a decent shot at the PEG, we soon need:

• the trance ability
• four crawlers in the immediate vicinity of a base
• 330 credits

Can this be achieved anytime soon? If not, selling AdapEcon to the Hive (and possibly the Drones) seems best.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Time for a stupid question: why is the CBA so good? I understand the power of Air units and giving them +2 morale in all bases, but is this really all that awesome? PEG and CDF I understand, but what does the CF do again?

[Drogue]

MWIA: Aerospace complexs do other things too. They allow the building of Orbital enhancements and they give quick upgrade of air units. With where we are on Planet, air and sea units will be what we have to fight with.

The CF gives a Bioenhancement Centre in each base. It also costs 40 rows, rather than 30 like the CBA.

[Maniac]

Plus they give +100% defense against air units, and prevent units from dropping within two squares of the base with the aerospace complex. Very important to counter the powerful chop&drop strategy!

[Drogue]

A very nice SP

[Maniac]

Indeed.

I had a look at the save file. Now the maximum amount of crawlers we can reasonably gather together around one base is two. So to fulfill the condition "four crawlers in the immediate vicinity of a base", may I suggest we start production on a supply crawler in Logic Loop, Zetaris, Boolean Bay and switch production in Aurora and Apolyton Prime to a supply crawler?

[Impaler[WrG]]

That can be done, I was hoping we could build more crawlers in the near future. If you want to get these Crawlers built asap then we should consider using the 20% Pych I discussed earlier. It will imediatly boost our mineral production and alow us to put off Drone Control facilities for that much longer which will translate to extra Crawlers.

Also I belive Portal could start on a Crawler too once it gets done with its Scout. We could likly converge all the Crawlers on Apolyton Prime as its most Central. Crawlers already in existence to the South of Bolean could be sent nothward and the new crawlers built in Bolean and Aurora would replace them as these bases are a bit far away to reach AP in time.

As we scrap additional PEACE navel yards we can likly generate the required Energy if their are no additional expenses for the war or for trading. I will try to produce a more detailed plan and pull out all the stopes and see what the maximum speed we can obtain is.

[Drogue]

I have another idea too. If we build many crawlers, send them to LL or AP, and use them to crawl. We end up with many mins (especially with Eco Eng, when we get boreholes ). Then when we're within 2 turns of completion (including rushing) we upgrade all the crawlers and cash them. We can do this many times and it works like a charm

Also: we need more formers. When we get Eco Eng, we need boreholes and condensers. Crawl the condensers and work the boreholes, and our tech and production goes through the roof. Our mins should be high enough for serious growth too

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
If you want to get these Crawlers built asap then we should consider using the 20% Pych I discussed earlier. It will imediatly boost our mineral production and alow us to put off Drone Control facilities for that much longer which will translate to extra Crawlers.

Have you seen my post in the Psych allocation thread? The mineral gain at the moment would be minimal (3 mins or so), while we would lose lots of credits. At the moment, doctors are still more lucrative as far as I can see.

[Drogue]

Yes, with extra credits we can rush crawlers and upgrade them

[Impaler[WrG]]

Ok I have atenative plan that could get us the PEG in 2156. The main limitation is obtaining 330 Credits with witch to upgrade 3 Crawlers to Plasma/Trance at 110 Each. We will need to perform these upgrades in 2155 and have all the Crawlers end their turns within range of Zetaris on 2154 so they can be upgraded in 55 then cashed in 56.

One Crawler will be the new Crawler from Zetaris which will crawl the new forest untill its cashed.

The second Crawler will be the One Logic Loop is currently making which will move northward rather then colect nuts (we can replace it rather quickly so not a big delay).

The Third will come from Apolyton Prime which will likly need to be hurried, estimates are 22 credits so that it can first move in 55 and be upgraded imediatly.

Then these 3 Crawlers converge on Zetaris and Zetaris switches from the inocent little facility its building to the PEG and cashes all the Crawlers to build the project in 1 turn.

Even if someone notices that we have the Crawlers upgraded in 55 they will likly not be able to react before we have the project in hand due to the delay of actualy upgrading the Crawlers.

The primary dificulty will be obtaining 240 additional Energy Credits by 2155. We need to avearage 80 Credits a turn to do that. If we keep our enoc ware it is (seems likly as no one was realy hot to the 20% Pych idea) and we capture and Scrap a PEACE Navel Yard each turn for the next 3 turns then we can make it. If we get the odd duplication effect or perhaps some bonus energy out of the Pod that rover will pop then all the better.

And ofcorse we need to obtain Trance from University some how. We need to have a trance unit turned over or SotHB sent to us by 2155 for this to work.

It would also be nice if we were trading Adaptive Econ with the Hive just late enough for them NOT to be able to build the Project would be excelent so lets look into how that will shape up and see if we can delay trading untill that point.