HIVE diplomatic exchanges

[Drogue]

Oh sod it, I've told you so much anyway, there is nothing to be lost from reproducing it.

I trust Jamski, which I why I told him, however I do trust most of the Hive, so have little problem. I've wanted to tell one of the Hive, since we want good relations, and surprising them, while their still Pacted with PEACE could prove dangerous. Now it shows our good intention, and if the worst happens, PEACE get maybe a year or 2 more to develop defences. Well worth the risk IMHO, espcially being Comrade Jamski.

Dammit, can't attach files here. I'll try to reproduce the chatlog, but won't look that good:

"Jamski:
Mr Drogue, do you have a moment to discuss Hive - CyCon arrangements?
Drogue:
of course
Jamski:
wonderful
Jamski:
a good evening to you too sir
Drogue:
good evening to you too
Jamski:
Basically there's a general feeling that the game is going to go into a 2 vs 3 situation
Jamski:
not all my Comrades agree on this point however
Drogue:
it seems to be the case.... PEACE and PUT seem to have sided with each other
Jamski:
and you may know that we have already a friendly relationship with the Drones
Jamski:
the question is... well you know what the question is
Drogue:
regarding us? Well, with drone relations, we are very good. the drones have been very good to us, since us all being PBEM n00bs, buster has helped us understand the rules better. A triumverate has been mentioned in our forum, to great applause
Jamski:
wonderful.
Jamski:
so you'd be happy that any deal with the Hive = a deal with the Drones
Drogue:
yes. We have wanted to be friends with the Hives since day one, and when I started, near the begining, athread for general diplomacy discussing meetingsd with all our factions, the Drones were also seen very favourably
Drogue:
can I ask you a private question, not to be relayed to the rest of the faction?
Jamski:
sure
Drogue:
how friendly are you with PEACE?
Jamski:
good question
Jamski:
very good question - we have a pact of convenice
Jamski:
but I personally don't trust them one inch
Jamski:
the deal is somthing like a 20 year pact, with NO renewal
Drogue:
right, in that case (and this is very private) I will let u in on our plan. You are in a very privilaged position. You could give either of us information on the other, so this uses more trust than the faction would let me. However we have plans. We have been planning for about 15 years, since the incident with JDM, to attack PEACE. We not have Nonlinear Math, the MCC, Doc Ini and an impact
Drogue:
cruiser about to be built
Drogue:
PEACE, at 2141, had but a few scouts defending
Jamski:
Although there have already been a number of polls on the subject of breaking the pact prematurely
Jamski:
yes, we have full infiltetation
Jamski:
they even have empty bases
Drogue:
We know... we have a full map of their territory
Jamski:
ah, I was going to offer to tell you which bases were undefended
Drogue:
That would be handy our information is about 4 years old now
Jamski:
well, we WOULD expect something in return
Drogue:
I realise that
Jamski:
its a shame base trading isn't possible in this game
Drogue:
what I was going to propose, was that we would gift you the commlinks u require for planetary governorship, and vote for you, and you would provide us with Info on PEACE
Jamski:
that would be nice
Drogue:
basically, with those two moves, we wil have practicall one the game, for the three of us
Jamski:
gov'nership would be very nice
Drogue:
pratically won*
Jamski:
there is only one BIG problem
Drogue:
with our 20 votes and you 45 you should have it in the bag
Drogue:
???
Jamski:
that again I probably shouldn't tell you
Jamski:
the Drones are pretty lukewarm on the idea of a 3-way pact
Jamski:

Drogue:
with us?
Jamski:
with anyone - but if there is to be a 3-way.pact, then the CYCON are the prefered partners
Drogue:
hmmmm.... it is true,, at the moment,w e have little to offer them. However when we have stolen all of PEACEs techs, and have another 15 pop to play with, it may be a different matter
Drogue:
yes, I do feela certain "its too easy"
Drogue:
since PEACE wont last long against us, and PUT on their own are nothing
Jamski:
indeed, that's the Drone's arguement
Jamski:
but perhaps we could agree that after the PUT and PEACE are dead all three of us declare vendetta on each other?
Drogue:
i have an idea. How about we collaborate until PEACE are destoryed, maybe until PUT too, and then fight it out?
Drogue:
A great idea
Drogue:
or even,with CyCon+Hive vs PUT+Drones could be good
Drogue:
with one research and 1 production each
Drogue:
faction*
Jamski:
so its a kind of race to get PEACE bases
Drogue:
well, if your about to declare, yes... are you still at pact?
Jamski:
nah, we have a committment to wrecking the Uni, the same as you and PEACE
Drogue:
ok
Drogue:
thats fine
Jamski:
we were hoping for PEACE neutrality untill we can get sghips across to the Uni
Jamski:
PEACE and Uni together is more of a challenge
Jamski:
pretty hard to invade the Uni if PEACE control the sea
Drogue:
ok, how about we do this. We will take out PEACE, with you providing information, and us giving you governorship. Then we give you a treansport or two, and protect your ships, while you attack PUT
Drogue:
when we have sea superiority, your ships have a big advantage against the PUT
Jamski:
true
Jamski:
and maybe a joint victory befoe Xmas?
Jamski:
that would be nice
Drogue:
that would be
Jamski:
To convince my Comrades and the Drones to enter a 3-way-pact we NEED your promise to deliver the votes
Drogue:
if you promise to give us the infiltration, I already have the authority to promise them
Jamski:
There are some very scepitcal people to be convinced
Jamski:
but sure, we can give you infilteration, and you give us goovenor
Jamski:
This IS good news (opens wine to celebrate)
Drogue:
yes, that is a great idea. If I can persuade the others (which i think I can) we can give you both the commlinks and the votes up front, and you give us the infiltration after. I'd hate to be played, but then I trust yourself and Voltaire, and so I am prepared d(personally) to do it
Drogue:
it is good news
Jamski:
Well, after we are govenor, you'll get BETTER information
Jamski:
we can perhaps pass on Uni info as well
Drogue:
that would be good, and we can make sure the PUT don't get to attack any of your transports
Jamski:
Excellent - there is the small question of whether this is a permapact, or just for the distruction of the pirates
Drogue:
this si strange, PEACE and the Hive being first to restrictions lifting, but the CyCon with the best army
Drogue:
either is fine, although I prefer a permapact
Jamski:
Likewise
Drogue:
a 3 way victory shows that co-operation can work, and not make the same mistakes of earth
Jamski:
I hope I can get the Drones to agree on a permapact as well, and then we have a joint win
Drogue:
a new era of totalitarian efficient government, by the people, for the people, with instand communication
Jamski:
Well, it IS a diplomacy game
Drogue:
very true
Jamski:
so this is probably the best way to end/win it
Jamski:
imagine if the endgame was one huge faction vs the AI
Jamski:
or just two left, who slug it out for months, while the eliminated factions get bored
Drogue:
the AI wont prove much of a problem. Miriam is wrapped round our little finger, and Roze is weak against us and PEACE
Drogue:
exactly... much ebtetr a co-op victory
Jamski:
Miriam liking CyCon?
Jamski:
wierd
Drogue:
yes
Drogue:
Googlie has given ach faction one friendlya nd one unfriendly AI
Jamski:
oh - just thought - to get the win, we'll have to kill the AI later as well
Drogue:
Miriam sold us non math, and may well attack peace soon
Jamski:
excellent
Jamski:
I wonder if she's OUR friend or enemy?
Drogue:
either way, she wont last long... ROze actually sold us a tech for 100ec too, so neither are that bad. Googlei said they could be turned, and since we dont run fundy, Miriam wont like us for too long
Jamski:
Miriam is *such* a good ally
Jamski:
YOu can *really* rely on her" (My bold, to emphasise the bits that seem most relevant that Jamski said). The log went on afterwards, but just discussing the finer points of earth alcohol and the best way to make a vodka martini

If anyone wants it much easier to read, PM/email me with an email address to email the .rtf file to.

[Maniac]

Thanks for the log.

Anyway, I agree with you private chats should be kept private unless permission is given, at least as long as the content is indeed private. If in a private chat ACDTG matters are discussed, I think they should be released to the general public, just like I posted the game-related PMs from Flubber, even if they had "personal" or "informal" in the title.

[DeathByTheSword]

to be honest...i would have like it if drogue asked us first to give the info to the hive...but hell nothing terrible has happened (yet )...and i am totally against having the drones in a co-op...dont trust them and makes it to easy...but that is my own thingy....i will go along with what the consciousness decides. i like they idea of helping them with the PUT...

[DeathByTheSword]

and i dont like the trade for infilration info one bit...we can very simply infiltrate them our selfs...we dont need the hive for that...I know that everone what a good relation with the HIVE...but dont go making up deals that dont benifit us...and 2 commlinks + votes...WAY TO MUCH...sorry to say it...but this plan doesnt have my support right now...much has to change...

[Maniac]

I agree with DBTS.

[Drogue]

Ok. I would have liked to ask first, but no-one was on at the time, and Jamski had asked me before "whens the attack?", presuming that we were going to attack PEACE.

As for the trade, we will have to give votes anyway. Commlinks they will get very soon anyway, from any one of many routes, and then they'll call the council. If we don't vote for them, we can kiss goodbye to a co-op (and any decent chance of victory).

We lose nothing by giving them the commlinks and votes, as they will get them anyway. One of their Pact Brother has the Believers commlink, and the other has both. If we don't vote for them when the council is called, say goodbye to a CyCon victory. What else do you want from them? The deal may not benefit us much, but the goodwill is worth more, IMHO, than the nothing that we lose.

As for the co-op victory, if we don't have a 3 way co-op then not only will we not win, the game will drag on for months and months and everyone will get bored. I doubt it will finish even. As for too easy, it is only that because of our diplomacy, and since war was one of the mistakes of old earth, it fits in with the game objective. Moreover, not winning because it's too easy is in direct contradiction with our factional ethos, of efficiency, of doing what is best regardless of emotional foibles. Either: we get a co-op victory, and get to destroy PEACE and the PUT; we side with PEACE and PUT and beat the Hive (not possible anymore); or we will be defeated, and the Hive/Drones win. Not only is it the best option for us game wise, it is the only one that fits in with our factional ethos.

I do9n't understand peoplem who try to harm another faction they have a strong Pact with. The Hive gaining means us gaining. If we have a co-op victory, the better the Hive has, the better we have. Why not give up things for nothing? If we get a co-op victory Pact, we may want to share everything, to help our combined effort.

[Phenix]

I just came back from a weekend... seems a lot has happened diplomatically

All right, I'm not really against the commlink/vote <-> infiltration trade as proposed. It's not a fair deal, but (like Drogue said) we would vote for them anyway AND we certainly need the infilitration because it will allow us to prioritise the cruiser building instead of transport/probes...

[Impaler[WrG]]

This is adsactly what I proposed we do a ways back when I first joined up, glad to see you took the initiative and investigated it. I am ofcorse all in favor of doing it.

I admit that the current deal may seem a bit lopsided in comlink/vote territory. I think it would be apropriate to ask for a tec from the hive, something low level like Doc Loyalty which I belive we dont have. In addition the Drones will want to recive something for their support. We will agree to give them caputured PEACE tecnologies after they get their production cap tecnologies this should be enough to seal the deal.

Also we should look into what the Drones are going to do in this Triamvarate, should they contribute units too the other factions or start attacking the AI early.

A 3 human factions vs 2 humans and 2 AI could be a lot more interesting then the original plan and this could help bring the Drones into the fight if they feel the 3 on 2 is too easy. This also has the advantage of finishing up the game even earlier.

The time is rapidly aproatching inwhich all the factions will be able to read the hand writing on the wall and the game will enter a final war, it is truely the crossroads of the game and we should see that we are positioned properly to survive and win and see that our enemies are not. After the destruction of PEACE and PUT and the AI's the remaining Triumvarate will remain stable as long as the relavtive powers of each faction are such that anyone making an agressive move can be defeated by an aliance of the other 2 and no one can form a 2 on 1 aliance without dooming themselves to a slow war of atrition with their former alie.

All in all an excilent plan, I support it fully!

[Nubclear]

Death to the PUT. Death to PEACE.
Glory to the Tralliance!

[Maniac]

In addition the Drones will want to recive something for their support. We will agree to give them caputured PEACE tecnologies after they get their production cap tecnologies this should be enough to seal the deal.

Why would we need to pay the Drones anything? It's the Hive that's gonna be elected planetary governor.

[Maniac]

When do we plan to contact PUT?
And when will we start planetary governor elections, and get PEACE infiltration data from the Hive?

[Impaler[WrG]]

well the Hive said dont Contact them untill they had gotten a tec trade from university and I think we should honor this.

I also figured it would be the Hive that initiates the Council after we give them the last com link, is that not how its going to happen?

After the Council is called Comlink trading becomes moot so we should try to sell all the comlinks we can to any faction gulible enough to buy them from us, AI or Human.

[Maniac]

well the Hive said dont Contact them untill they had gotten a tec trade from university and I think we should honor this.

Yeah, but we have been waiting years already for the Hive to give us a sign...

After the Council is called Comlink trading becomes moot so we should try to sell all the comlinks we can to any faction gulible enough to buy them from us, AI or Human.

Yet another reason to contact PUT asap and trade them AI or other commlinks!

[Maniac]

***

RE: ACDTG: Hive-CyCon secure transmission

Hey Maniac.

I have to say that noone knows. Marshal Rokovssky has staged a coup and is in complete control of the Hive in every detail. We are all doomed

-Jam

Hi Jamski,

It's been a while since our two factions talked. This is caused by the near inactiveness in our forum. In the meanwhile several years have passed though, where we of the Consciousness were left without infiltration information on PEACE. I was therefore wondering if you would want to tell us if PEACE has started a military build-up after us breaking the pact, or more in general what's the current military status of PEACE?
Btw, how went the deal with the PUT for EcoEng, and what are your current plans or time schedule for becoming Planetary Governor?

Greetings,

Maniac
Second Function of the Cybernetic Consciousnes

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think we need to get the ball rolling with the Hive, comunications have realy droped off witch is making me suspicius. We should tell the Hive that we still support the tenativly agreed upon plans and are eager for them to be exicuted. BUT we getting eager for infiltration info on PEACE to refine our war planning with (and assure us that Peace is infact still dumb to our plans). So if our EAF could start kicking the Hive in the butt to get on with what ever they are going to do, possibly offer them some kind of insentive too.