Secret Project Problems!!!

[Corellion]

They got BOTH!?!?

Let's switch to VW ASAP, and try to get it... but if not we need to switch to something...

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Maniac
I've more or less promised PEACE we'll switch to Ethical Calculus after we get DocFlex.

Promises are irrational.

You know this

[Googlie]

And from a strategic partnership perspective, it'd make more sense for you, rather than the Pirates, to get the MCC - for them it's just 2 extra movement points (they already got their free naval base when they discovered Doc Ini) - whereas for you it's the movement points plus a free naval base in every coastal base

G

[Maniac]

True Googlie, but seeing our recent communications I doubt that the Pirates would be willing to engage in such a close strategic partnership. I certainly can't imagine them giving us Doc:Ini.

Another possibility is going for the Command Nexus if everything else fails. But unless we want to research Doc:Loy - a tech which is no prerequisite for techs like D:AP and EnvEcon - ourselves, we'll have to hope the Hive lives up to its (illegally made) statement and contacts us in a few turns, trading Doc:Loy.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Maniac
we'll have to hope the Hive lives up to its (illegally made) statement and contacts us in a few turns, trading Doc:Loy.

Could you elaborate on this?

[Maniac]

Corellion posted this a while back in the PEACE diplomatic exchanges thread. It started the whole Hive affair. Pay special attention to the last sentence.

As for the Hive, here is some interesting news I received in a message from Voltaire: they have some information on us. Voltaire told me (though I'm not sure if he actually knew this, or if he was making it up) that the Hive knew that there were some problems in our pact with PEACE. Considering neither I nor anybody else (as far as I know) has told them of our pact, this is interesting. He has been telling me for some time now that he knows of our pact, but I've dismissed it as his guessing (his explanation is that Kody has been 'watching the power graph', although he insinuated that Kody's been doing a little more than that). This then lent a little more credibility to his next statement that he expects that they will receive our commlink within the next few turns. Interesting events.

I just checked the old turn saves and I noticed the Hive met PEACE in MY 2135. They got MY 2135 at 9 September. The whole cheating affair also erupted 9 September. So it's possible this statement is made after they met PEACE. Theoretically PEACE could have told the Hive that they have met us, that we were pacted but that our relations were not so good. But seeing PEACE doesn't even want to tell us they met the PUT and the Hive, it seems unlikely PEACE would tell all this confidential information to the Hive. This hypothesis is supported by the Pirate PMs asking us back then hat was going on with the Hive.

If PEACE didn't tell them all this information, AFAIK the most likely conclusion seems to be the Hive are cheating somehow. The hacker who gave you all the faction's passwords could be a Hive member who opened the other factions' turn, and thus knew that for example a PEACE ship was heading towards them, or that we and PEACE were pacted. Now I think of it, the Hive being able to open our turn would also tell them we were approaching completion of the Human Genome Project. If for that reason the Hive suddenly rushed the PTS and HGP, robbing us of the SP we were fully aiming for and were relying many of our future strategies on, this whole game is definitely frauded to our disadvantage.

I definitely hope you and Googlie will further investigate this affair...

[Nubclear]

Because I do not have access to PEACE forums, GooglieGod will have to investigate over there.
However, obviously I have access to Hiverian forums. I will question a few of them as to whats going on...

[Phenix]

Some disturbing thoughts there, Maniac

I hope Googlie's investigation will clarify things a bit....

Still, if we don't get in contact with the Hive (for Doc:Loy) and the Uni or Believers beat us to the VW,
we'll need to switch to another tech (Doc:Ini probably) and let Peace wait a little longer for Eth.Calc.

[Maniac]

That would completely and definitely screw up our relations with PEACE though. It should be a really absolute last case resort IMHO. And even then...

Do we need a poll to vote on our next tech choice after DocFlex?

Or perhaps we should probe PEACE if they would be willing to give us the Hive commlink frequency?

[Maniac]

Now the Hive has also started construction of the Command Nexus and the Virtual World.

[Phenix]

Looks like the famous Hive industrial might isn't just some Pravda propaganda

[Googlie]

his explanation is that Kody has been 'watching the power graph', although he insinuated that Kody's been doing a little more than that

I am satisfied that "supersleuth" Kody has done an admirable job of deduction from available information

His methods include:

powergraph analysis
tech possession (checking to see what techs the Hive has that others are lacking, and also at what point others seem to be getting techs
SE choice analysis (eg "leapfrog" techs whereby a faction can shift to Wealth without having Ind Base or to Planned without Info Nets), suggesting pact or Treaty swaps
Apolyton and Civgaming Board visitation analysis - who's on when and where, and what happens when there's a flurry of posts (or visits) co-inciding with the turn being stalled

Kody has too much time on his hands!!!

G.

[Nubclear]

I believe Kody has a form of obsessive compulsive disorder. From both this and my personal dealings with him.

[Kody]

Umm maybe.... Okay yeah I was obsessive of wasting time instead of doing work. I noticed things like the time interval between posts, and how certain people took minutes between posts, or tens of minutes.

Also always being so concerned about wanting people to like me I'm actually rather good at picking up undertones in people's posts. However, I think voltaire turned my "I get the feeling that they're not getting along" into "we know that you've been having problems".

However, the breaking up of Peace and Cycon was a complete surprise to me. While I felt you guys weren't getting along, I didn't really believe it was that bad, and I don't think the Hive would have entered the non-agression pact with the Peace if we had know your plans. Peace were only a threat because we thought you might be working with them.

What was going through my mind was
"Yes, we got a pact with Peace, now hopefully we can contact the Cycon soon since we're all pact brothers".... shortly later.... "Huh the Cycon broke pact with the Peace, what on earth I thought the Peace and the Cycon were working together."



The whole SP thing fell the way it did due to the drones beating us to the WP. One more turn and we would have built the WP.

What happened was the hive was building up crawlers to build the WP and the drones got there first. If they had waited 1 more time we would have made it. We really didn't know what to do, so basically we made a 6-7 year plan to build the HGP and had choosen Biogenetics just so we could get the HGP. I think we pretty much built the HGP as soon as we got biogenetics as we had enough crawlers long before we even started researching the tech. Waiting those couple of years while we researched Biogenetics we got an excess of crawlers. I was thinking of building the VW at the same time as the HGP since we had an excess of crawlers. However through the turn simulator, I figured out that the PTS gave back more industry than it took to build, so we built PTS first then VW later. At the time we built the HGP and PTS we were getting like 4 crawlers per turn??? not sure need to check.

Later CN was because we had organised for the drones to build the ME. we wanted people to be uncertain that we were getting the VW so that the drones would get a better chance to build the ME. We assumed you guys were almost in the same situation as the Hive. Having lots of spare crawler waiting for the right time to cash them in, that's why the pretending to build the CN.

I don't know where you've discussed getting SPs, however the Hive had it's build dates set in stone most likely years before you did. The turn simulator + having to first research the tech before we could build the SP made us pretty sure when we could build.