Secret Project Plan & Logic Loop Issues

[Maniac]

My exams are done, which gives me more time to poll!!

We should plan our production plans a bit further ahead IMO, certainly when dealing with our first SP. That's why I have a few questions. The time limit to vote is three days, and you have one vote per question.

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1) Where should we construct our first Secret Project?

• Pi Square
• Apolyton Prime
• Logic Loop

All three options have good natural resources speaking in their advantage.
Pi Square has two nutrient squares, which can be forested to produce 3-2-1 a year.
Apolyton Prime has a monolith and a nutrient river square, which can be forested to produce 3-2-2.
Logic Loop has a monolith, a nutrient square (It will probably be farmed to produce 5-1-0 as a former is currently there.), and a mineral square (That can be farmed and mined to produce 2-5-0 - former-intensive work though.)

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2) When should we start our first SP production?

• Right now! (Or after the current scout patrol is finished in Poly Prime's case? If the SP base grows to size 3, we can always deal with the drones - emotional cyborgs - with a nerve staple. We can't do that more than once though without serious commerce consequences.)
• After a rec commons is constructed or hurried. (That should eliminate any drone worries when the SP base grows to size 3.)
• After a recycling tanks is constructed or hurried. (That extra mineral can give us a definitive edge over the competition. We first need the cash to rush it though.)
• When both a rec tanks and rec common are present in the SP base. (With all the aforementioned advantages and drawbacks as a result.)
• Write-in

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Since some people already said they want the SP to be built in Logic Loop, I decided to ask this question in the same poll, as the issues are most certainly related.

3) If Logic Loop has base size 2, what two squares do you want to be worker first?

• Nutrient square and monolith
• Nutrient square and mineral square
• Monolith and mineral square
• Write-in

Related with this issue is what we should produce in Logic Loop: SP, CP, former... Please use this thread to discuss this too. Preferably we should know the answer before we play our current turn, or we might loose minerals because of having to switch production next turn. And while we're at it, please use this thread to tell your preferred Pi Square & Poly Prime next production item as well.

Pics to help you make your vote:



And an important detail:

[Drogue]

I vote we don't build an SP. Let's concentrate on growth, and come to SPs soon IMHO. We need CPs and Formers now! However I voted Logic Loop, as it is the best place to build it IMHO. I think if we do, after Rec Commons, Rec Tanks and at least 1 former.

BTW: Mining and farming the mins at LL will produce 2/4/0. Mines only do 1 on rolling IIRC.

LL, go nuts and mins, and then monolith in a few turns when it's grown.

[Maniac]

BTW: Mining and farming the mins at LL will produce 2/4/0. Mines only do 1 on rolling IIRC.

IIRC when you build a mine on a mineral bonus square, you get an extra mineral above the normal production. Thus building a mine on a rocky mineral square give 7 mins, on rolling 5 mins and on flat 4 mins.

[Drogue]

Actually, we currently get 3 from that square, as your pic shows. With a mine you get an extra one on rolling, and thus 4. With a mine of rocky you get an extra 3, and 0 on flat IIRC. Might be a % thing in part though, so it may be a mine of a mins special gets an extra 1, hence 5. However it may only be on rocky mins that it gets the extra. Have to see. I'll do a trial.

[Googlie]

I ran a scenario test - it gets 5 mins with a mine and road.

However, with a farm I only got 1 nut, not 2, for a 1-5-0 yield

G.

[Maniac]

for a 1-5-0 yield

Odd. I would expect rainy (2) + farm (+1) + mine (-1) = 2.

Anyway, what should we build in Logic Loop right now? Currently everyone has voted for building our first SP there. We could start right now already, or we could first finish some other production items. If we continue with the CP though, I'd suggest we temporarily switch production from the nutrient square to the monolith. Because as things are going now, we will just reach size 3 when we shrink back to size 2. If we now work the monolith, we'll first shrink to size 1 before immediately growing back to size 2 due to already having filled two nutrient rows in the box. The advantage of switching to the monolith is that we won't waste a nutrient row and have some extra production and energy instead.

[Drogue]

Ah yes, the road adds 1, I forgot that

Maniac: Mines put it to being moist IIRC. Personally, I never mine non-rocky squares, and think that foresting is the best short term solution, as it is quick and gives us 1-4-2. Also I expect we would borehole it eventually, for a 0-8-6

[Googlie]

On review, I hadn't made the tile rainy in my scenario test - so it does produce 2-5-0 with a farm, mine and road.

The road should add nothing ('cos the manual says it has no effect on a mine in rolling terrain), and at first I thought the extra mineral was 'cos it's a crater tile, (or at least it was, prior to the earthquake, and still registers as crater) but it definitely is 4 mins when I remove the road and 5 with it in place.

(You can check the effect of terrain improvements on a tile by left clicking on the small tile display box to the left of the faction strength display lists)

G.

[Drogue]

Oh well. Either way, I propose doing the less former intensive foresting until we get boreholes. I don't think it's worth the mine yet. Either that, or make the terrain rocky and get 7 from it, but that's a bit much IMHO. WhHat do others think?

[Corellion]

Forest-it. Let's go for quantity over quality, and begin re-forming later, once our terraforming infrastructure has been established.

[Drogue]

Then that is what we shall do The nuts is being farmed, as per orders and terraforming plan. To waste the only square where we can get over 2 nuts would be silly IMHO, and 5 is a big bonus to growth, especially if we want to build an SP, in which we need the monolith, mins and nuts being worked. Will give us 8 mins, which is quite handy, and an extra one if we are to farm solar the energy and work that, although we need a Rec Commons for that. To be honest, it will grow fast, and thus we will have drone riots without a RC. The quickest way to build an SP there is with building the RC first. Why have people voted to build it right now? There is no need, we will pick up either the WP, the VR or the HGP (or even the Command Nexus, so we can really attack everyone else ). All are very useful for the whole game, and there is no major rush. Even so, we can build it quickest growing to 3 or 4 and building a RC, as opposed to having to keep it at 2 so we don't riot.

[Maniac]

Well I'd still vote to mine it, but currently I seem to be in a 2-to-1 minority. Aren't there more people who wish to vote in this poll, especially on the important issue when we should start our SP construction? In some other polls I've seen up to 6 voters.

there is no major rush

I disagree. I've played enough PBEMs to know you need to plan long ahead and start early if you want one of the better early SPs: WP, HGP or VW.

[Chaunk]

I vote for mine it. The extra nut is very important IMHO, and providing me mine it first, it'll be a lovely square at 2-5-0.

That'd be a lovely SP production site

[Drogue]

But it would take so much former time to mine it. WOuld you rather have it mined and farmed, or would you rather have both that and the energy special resource forested around it? If people wish, I will do, but currently it's 2 all, so we need someone to break the deadlock (or the person playing the turn has to use their initiative).

There is no hurry, as most other factions don't even have the techs needed yet. We will get one, and as I said, it is quicker building a rec commons first. We will have 4 in their by the time we finish the SP, but we will need 2 doctors then, and our production will be greatly reduced. In other words, if we want to build one, we need an RC first. We argue about that 1 nut on the min square, but that will make no difference if we don't have an RC to allow us to grow

[Corellion]

But if we are going to, then we're going to have to move Social Psych up the research list, rather than going for some of the industrial techs.