Consciousness philosophical discussion

[Maniac]

First posted edited as due to outdated.

[Drogue]

PM sent by Drogue to Corellion
CyCon Ideas
Of course, all this is my personal opinion, and I will go with whatever the majority of the faction wants.

First thing, this poll isn't for our leader, IMHO we need to have regular elections for that. This is for who is moderator of the forum, since Markos needs to know. I have a few ideas about the faction, but these are all personal things, and I will happily go with the will of the faction.

1) I think we should be democratic, both in SE settings and in style of governing. I think major decisions should be polled, but possibly only 2 day polls, since we have quite a tight turn around. However, since we only play a turn at a time, we can plan ahead quite a bit, with regards to polls. I think we should elect the leader and deputy every month, to make sure we are going as we want, and empower them to be able to control in an emergency. Broadly based on the old UN Constitution, but with fewer people, so less need for official polls etc, sicne we just need the opinion of the 6 of us.

The democratic SE is best for most things IMHO, and I think we should only change to Police State should we really need to, for police or war reasons, but that should be rare if at all. While I like democratic, I feel the need to be flexible. I would never support Fundy (although would go with the will of the faction) because both in RP and in game, I disagree with it.

2) I support Knowledge value, I think the CyCon prize that about most else, and thus it is true to our ethos to value it. Wealth wouldn't seem right for the CyCon, a cyborg valuing money, and while power might be RPed and would work in extremes of prolongued war, I would be very wary to lose it.

3) I think we must, in all circumstances go for Cybernetic Future Value. It is our main aim, and not doing so would be like Morgan running Planned. I think for RPs sake, we must do it, and also in game, it is very useful, especially without the negatives (which we don't get).

4) As for economics, I am undecided. We can RP any IMHO, and thus this would need to be dictated by need. Generally I would say Planned, as being cybernetic, we would control it easily, and then Green later, for the efficiency which seems to be something our faction would value (borg like almost). However, we value research a lot, and collectively, we could have a good FM, with perfect knowledge, which gets us the most research. As such, I would go with whatever the situation needs, and others want. Even being an economist, I'm usually a little wary of FM though.

I think at the start, we should attack a little more than usual. We have tech steal, which is a great advantage, and if we start near the University, or near a good researching AI faction, we should try to take a few bases. Even if we lose them, we gain research, and they don't in retaking them. While I don't want to become preoccupied with military, we are primarily a builder faction, in many ways, I think with our growth penalties, we need to conquer to get population, and we need a strong powerbase if we are to stand up against the Hive. Therefore, I think the Citizens Defense Force is important, as we need to try to keep bases we take. Also, later on, clonign vats is important for such a low growth faction. However, as for specific techs and SPs, I think we need to discuss them as a faction, to decide which direction we wish to take.

In short, personally, I am for Demo/Depends on Situation/Knowledge/Cybernetic, but will go with what the faction wants. I think we should have a leader (although not necessarily the moderator, which is what this is more about IMHO) and I think we need to elect them, and empower them to act in emergencies, but only then. I think getting the opinion of the rest of the faction should be a priority. I think we shouldn't be complete pacifists, but should generally follow a mixed style, aprt builder, part attacking and securing, to take advantage of tech steal. I am also on here a lot, thus can see any threads htat need locking, etc. quickly, and can be active. However I am sure this is the same for Maniac.

- Drogue

There we go. Now, we need discussion quickly IMHO, as the first turn will need to be played in a couple of days.

[Drogue]

I agree with much maniac said, although I have a few little points and questions. However, this is a philosophical thread, and should be left as such IMHO, as we need one of those, and an early practical ideas one, which I will start.

[Maniac]

As you can see from my PM, I started to elaborate about economics, whil your PM was more to the point. I should've done that too I guess.

Anyway, a little question:

but with fewer people, so less need for official polls etc, sicne we just need the opinion of the 6 of us.

Won't we do any attempt to try and get more Consciousness members? Perhaps we could put together some PM introducing ourselves and inviting them to join us. We could send it to the old ACDG members not yet playing in this AXDG, and perhaps also to the AC PBEM civgroup.

[Method]

also we should probably write a newzitem...i might if i have time (if i ever do it's on the weekends) but if someone else wants to...

BTW drug...is Victoria Day this monday or next?

[Maniac]

also we should probably write a newzitem

With lots of false propaganda I hope? And where we didn't write the truth, we should put the truth in binary, using our encryption codes.

I haven't got a clue what Victoria Day is.

[Method]

i know, you non-commonwealthian

[Drogue]

newzitem? As I posted in the 3D thread I am happy to be editor, if anyone wants to send stories to me. Be they fiction, fact, or what we want others to believe, anything is welcome. Let us have fun misleading the other factions.

Maniac, great idea bout getting more people. I was just on about the immediate future. As many people as possible is good I will gladly help put that together, we can spam OTF, the CIV III DG (loads of people, many will play SMAC?) or anywhere else,a s well as PMing old ACDGers.

[Drogue]

Sorry, I have no idea about Victoria day, it is not longer a bank holiday here. Besides, I'd rather celebrate a truely great Brit, like Henry VII, or Elizabeth I, rather than a women who presided over a period of innovation, had many children, and was not English.

[Method]

meh, whatever. a holiday's a holiday

[Drogue]

Yes, but we don't get the holiday

[Maniac]

Several people, Drogue also, have described the Cyborgs as having no emotions. Does everyone think the same? Personally I see the Consciousness members as usual humans, with all their joys and mistakes and emotions, but just with a few extra capabilities. What's the opinion of you guys about that? It's a rather important issue, RP speaking.

Btw, have you guys already read Unity in the past, a story by SMAC Fanatic / Clear Skies over the Consciousness?

[Method]

yes, i've read that. IIRC, Clear skies had made the cyborgs just like maniac said: regular humans, but with extra capabilities, and more logical.

it's not that we don't have emotions: it's that it's *illogical* to let them guide decisions.

[Corellion]

Victoria Day is this Monday just coming up. Is it really no longer a Bank Holiday in the UK? That's odd, it's one here!

[Drogue]

Actually, while CS may see it that way, the speech given by Aki Zeta-5 when chosing a faction says that to become CyCon, you give up the right brain functions, the illogical emotions. Thus stating that we are humans, without emotions, but with enhanced left brain capacity, that of intelligence and logic.

Personally, since it is stated so plainly, I think it would be hard to question it. It would be like the Hive doing what they ahve done and claiming to be democratic, a people's republic, when Police State is their defining characteristic. We could do it, but I think it would make others see us not as CyCon.