General diplomacy and trading Doc flex

[Flubber]

I have sent very general messages to bother the cyborgs and the university. Basically I said that I just wanted to touch base after my absence and that I hoped fro strong friendship and close relations.

The cycon has already responded indicating an interest in acquiring doc flex and also indicating they might still owe us ethical calc from the prior deal. Could whomever negotiated the prior deal with cycon confirm whether or not there are ANY outstanding obligations either way ??

THAT LEaves Doc flex. I was one of the loudest voices against trading it early but the cycon are now researching it and at least one AI have it . . . SO my view is that we trade it now and try to get something for it. If we trade it to the cycon and then PUT, it will still take them a little time to find the Hive and Drones-- it may be even possble for us to trade the tech to the Hive and drones.

MY view is this:

We make a deal with the cycon to trade them doc: flex a turn or two before they would otherwise discover it. Around the same time we trade it to the University. IF the Hive/drones don't have the tech, we trade it to them 6 or 8 turns later. My hope is to trade it FOUR times for benefit but try to time it so we keep everyone out of the water as long as we can. I would trade for tech or cash. Personally I would like to garner some cash and rush a bunch of infrastructure. Having a tech lead makes us a target while having a better empire hardly registers in the powergraphs.

[johndmuller]

As I remember it, the Cycon owe us 1 tech (not necessarily EthicalCalc, but I have nothing against that one) from our previous deal leading to IndAuto.

The Hive has been in contact with the Datajacks, who are the AI with Doc:Flex, which could therefore be traded to the Hive if they are having good relations. Given that the Hive and the Drones both have IndAuto and at least one of them lack at least one of the prerequisites, I would imainge that they are in contact with one another. The Cycon are also in contact with the Datajacks, a manouver which left a bad taste in our mouths for the Borg - and could also have led indirectly to the DJ's getting Doc:Flex. Miriam and Roze are pacted.

So everyone except the PUT seems to have a reasonable expectation of getting Doc:Flex without us which does indeed argue for trying to trade it before the DJ's do. The DJ's getting it was in fact the reason we recently broached the matter with the Borgs, to get them on record as negotiating for it with us so that they might feel uncomfortable going behind our backs to get it from the DJ's.

It would seem reasonable to assume that the Hive are somehow closer to the DJ's than are the Drones (and that one of them, presumably the Hive, has a ship (like a unity transport), which was used to make contact (I suppose a pod, or even a land connection could also be responsible for that). If the Hive are near the DJ's, we should be able to find them, as we are all over the DJ's boundaries with our ships, we just haven't checked out their neighbors' coastlines very closely. If they have anything we want to get, they have needs enough to be good customers of ours.

I agree with most of Cap'n Flubber's analysis, although I would be a little more coy about trading Doc:Flex to the PUT, at least until they seem likely to have a way of getting it themselves or offer something that we really want. Right now, it seems their best bet for getting it independently is that the Borg will come to them (since the Borg may be able to see, as we can, that someone has a base off their NE coast - I don't know what they see with their main view, but their view from DBTSVERSE PORTAL does not show it.

How fickle we are. It seems like it was only yesterday that I was being ragged for hoarding cash (to be able to rush facilities) instead of rushing units. Now, after spending most of our money on tech and units, the crowd is calling for money to rush facilities. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.

I think it would be nice if we had Intel Integrity, so we could upgrade those scouts to cheap cops and between a cop and a RecComm, have enough drone control to get to get the bases populations beyond the Doctor-only specialist level once we start having a drones as our first citizens. I think that the first b-drone warning is coming up soon. It would also be nice to get NonLinear Math (without having to bother with Applied Physics first), but in any case, a weapons tech would be nice. I am assuming that we will try to get to Field Modulation before too long and use the Res3 Armor rather than bothering with Synthmetal, which is also, I suppose, better than nothing if we head in another direction.

[Hercules]

Yes nothing to add. I was going to suggest asking for a non trade arrangement but with Roze and Miriam looking to trade all over the place that might not be achievable.

Cuspidore : Are you aware we have just met the Hive in the mid turn.

[johndmuller]

As (I think) you are by now aware, I was ignorant of your initial activities until recently, when you noticed that you had only cc'd Cap'n F.

We could still ask for a no trade clause, as there is some reason to believe that the Hive and Drones are in contact and if so, the Hive could trade the Doc:Flex to them before we or anyone else even gets into contact with them. The Hive may also be in a position to either trade Roze's commlinks to the Drones or to get Doc:Flex from her, but they may not know that Roze has Flex and trading the commlinks would not be in their best interests.

You will note if you see what we have that the Hive doesn't (offer all techs) that the DJ's commlinks are missing from that list which means that the Hive has them; however, there is no listing for the DJ's diplo status with the Hive in the DJ's profile - I don't know what that means as one would think that the Hive would use the commlinks if they had them and that would make it show up in the DJ's profile just like the CyCon does.

Roze has no ships to date and so is some time away from getting in touch with anyone else. Likewise the CyCon

[Hercules]

That's funny I have checked twice and it seems I can offer the Hive, Datajacks Comms links (I am not going to but interesting discrepancy). Datajack won't accept my communication so perhaps she is in the midst of it.

The Hive don't have
Ind Base
Soc Psych
Doc: Mob
Doc: Flex
Progen Psych
Uni Comm
Believers Comm
Cycon Comm
Datajack Comm.

Anybody else get this outcome?

[johndmuller]

I got your list minus the DJ commlinks - I'm going to post a screenshot nex as a separate postt, but just so you know what it says if you can't download it.

It's also interesting that neither of us show the maps. If I list the techs for the Drones, I get the maps and all four commlinks (DataTechs are last) you'd expect (Confirming Hive contact with the Drones) plus Mobility, Flex and ProgenPsych for a total of 8, which is also the total I get for the Hive; perhaps there is a maximum (for me anyway). I'm using 1024x768, you too?

[johndmuller]

This is my poor quality image of the screen showing my view of what the Hive needs from us (Offer all tech).

[Hercules]

Ah. Right. I went back to the mid turn 2134

With the Hive I went to the next screen after the above by pressing share tech. Here the techs and the four comm links are available. Interesting, and when I offered DJ it was accepted.

I never tried the Drones comm link for exploring their situation before so I got a similar report as you but going to the next screen, the Hive links became available for transaction.

So which is the more accurate?

[johndmuller]

Ah-So, the Share Techs screen, I didn't try that and I recall that it is a scrolling screen so it wouldn't have a funky limit like the all tech screen seems to have (although it might still be hard to transact more than 8 in one turn - unless some of them went through behind the scenes without the recipient's knowledge).

Getting back to the other screen, are you using the 800x600 resolution and getting more techs listed?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by johndmuller
.

How fickle we are. It seems like it was only yesterday that I was being ragged for hoarding cash (to be able to rush facilities) instead of rushing units. Now, after spending most of our money on tech and units, the crowd is calling for money to rush facilities. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.

I was one of the people that spoke in favor of spending some money to get our boats out there. Now that this has been done, we have garnered a fair advantage from trade with a number of factions and have a very good sens of the lands around us. We are able to make much better decisions and have available tech.

Now our situation is changed . . . There is no huge need for any additional boats and its time to rush colonies and infrastructure.

Another possibility is to try to get a few rovers ready with the idea of rushing roze. The last I saw , Roze had a pretty small and pathetic military. cash available to upgrade basic rovers to best weapon or best armour would be helpful.

[Hercules]

To confuse matters further the Hive seem to be able to trade the Drones comm links. hmmm.

[Hercules]

Unless the Hive have just made contact with the Drones this turn as well. Hence the message about complicated turn requiring 48 hours.

Re screen I am on the standard 1024 X 768

[Flubber]

Just though I would hit this thread as well

WE now have 3 human controlled factions willing to trade us stuff for doc flex-- I think we should consider this seriously as

1. Roze has it already
2. the cycon are researching it

So far the offers are

1. Hive -- 2 level 1 techs
2. UNiversity-ethical calc plus perhaps more-- they want cycon comm as well
3. Cycon-- a future tech perhaps-- I would tie them done on this before making any deals

I think our sea monopoly is almost over and I would rather we get some value NOW-- my big fear is that the council will get called if the EG is built and it will get traded around with no benefit to us
3. cycon

[foolish_icarus]

While I agree that it is about time to start trading it, hasn't Empath Guild been disabled? Just another incentive to keep at least one or two comm frequencies to ourselves until it suits us to have council called.

[Flubber]

Ahhh

ig EG is disabled this means we have some more years to play with but the premise is the same since Roze has doc flex-- if we delay too long, we risk missing out entirely on getting any benefit of trading comms