CyCon PACT Proposal

[Googlie]

[Googlie]

[Hercules]

This reply from Drogue to enquiry below

Dear Captain,

I do not know if Mani has replied yet, but I thought it best if I do in case
he hasn't.

Thank you very much for the trade It is nice to see it concluded. We
are researching Doc Flex because we were told that you would not trade for
it. If that is not the case, we will happily trade, and will switch
(probably to eth calc so we can transmit it too you)? We could happily
provide another tech (maybe Gene Splicing, which we are relatively near?) in
exchange for Doc Flex, or a tech we have now (App Phys?).

Yes, Miriam contacted us with an incident with a chopper, and offered it too
us.

I hope this answers your questions. If you are willign to trade for Doc
Flex, it would be most appreciated

Yours
Drogue Beta-8


----- Original Message -----
From: "cathal.mullaghan"
To: "Drogue" ; "Maniac"
Cc: "Flubber" ; "Flameflash" ;
"Makahlua"
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:55 AM
Subject: Re Peace Cycon Pact discussions.


> Greetings External Function Drogue Beta 8 and Mani-Alpha - 3
>
> Well our joint endeavours delivered the goods re Ind Auto.
> Congratulations to us both.
>
> I write because just towards the end of our pirates turn I noticed that
> you are now researching Doc: Flexibility. We are a bit puzzled by this
> as we have that tech and we presumed you would be researching something
> else: unless there was little or no choice offered at the research
> screen.
>
> As Pact colleagues we more or less thought you would be approaching us
> again soon regarding trading Doc: Flex and we could work out a deal.
>
> On a second point: out of interest how did you acquire the DJ comm link.
> Was it via an exchange with Miriam?
>
> We mention this because in an earlier exchange between us it was
> indicated that you were about to contact us regarding you recent contact
> with her.
>
>

[Hercules]

I hope Flubber can take over the negotiations now he's back.

In the above I was sorely tempted to include a line like

'we have received a faint signal to our monitoring station from one of our far flung pirate explorers. They indicate they see signs of another faction's base (which is true, we only met the PUT scout)'.

We don't indicate which faction but it does commit us to saying we have met another faction. But it could be made more vague.

Like Doc: Flex our comms are also a nice set of jewels.

[Googlie]

[Hercules]

Well that clears that up. I thought they would only know that information if they also had met with or communicated with faction.

[johndmuller]

The Cuspidore only told you that 4 or 5 times to deaf ears, but Googlie tells you once and you're signed right up. Maybe I should send in my terraforming advice under his letterhead.

[Hercules]

I didn't realise Truce (informal or otherwise) indicated a tech trade had takern place. I thought it simply indicated basic contact. Secondly I would have expected them and us to know about Roze and Miriam because we both have contact with those factions.

If they had met the Drones and we hadn't I didn't expect to see info regarding that even in a Pact relationship. Obviously after Plan Council when everybody has contact, the situation is clear about who has treaties and pacts.

Maybe we should seek a pact with the PUT and see who they have met (joking)

[johndmuller]

The commlinks list shows a variety of status entries. In addition to Pact, Treaty and Vendetta, there are Truce, No Truce, Blank (where only the Faction name is there) and Completely Blank (without even a line with the faction name). I'm not totally sure without opening up a few games about whether or not the last two both exist, or just one of them, but I think they do. I think that "Informal Truce" in the infiltration is equivalent to "No Truce" in the commlink list.

I think that the existence of a line with the faction name on it means you have their commlinks. In some PBEMS, due to some quirk of the setup (or maybe depending on the skill of the CMN), you may have lines for all the human controlled factions (and an imprecation from the CMN that you may nevertheless not use them until you actually meet in the game. Anyway, if it says Truce, you have probably established an actual truce via talking to the AI or using the truce button or making or receiving some offer; At the moment, I'm not certain of the difference between No Truce and Blank status with a faction line, but perhaps it depends on whether one of you is an AI or whether you have actually met, instead of just getting the commlinks or possibly something to do with infiltration or you or someone else getting the Empath Guild and using it to call an election. I have also seen occasions where the game did not think that players met while the players were convinced that they had, so there is also room for bugs in this analysis too.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the various possibilities differentiate with certainty that you have made a trade with each other or not - I think you can have most of them with or without an actual trade, but probably some on the low end, like the totally &/or partially blank would be impossible if you had actually made a trade.

[Hercules]

Thank you Cuspidore, for that. That's actually the uncertainty I had.

Later in the game (to avoid hassle now), I 'll ask the Borgs when exactly they knew we had contact with the PUT.

[Flubber]

It should be easy to see some info regarding who the PUT have met-- just open the diplo channel and " Offer all tech" -- the commlinks of anyone we have met and they have not will appear

As john D says when pacted, all pactmates know your diplomatic status with everyone.

AS for the cycon trade, I could resume my diplomatic role if you wish that but it seems you folks have been doing great without me. I would want to trade them Doc: Flex as late as possible-- it may be difficult for them to get it from the Angels since all they have is a truce with them.

I could begin negotiations offering to trade them doc flex 2 turns before their discovery of it in return for a tech to be chosen by us from among their choices. We can even use the changing circumstances in the last deal to explain why we won't give flex now . . . too many circumstances could change before we get our return tech . . . This could actually happen if we meet the Hive or Drones and manage widespread tech trades- It COULD occur that the cycon would not be able to flip to any tech desirable to us

SEcond major point-- do we want a pact- "forever" with the cycon-- I am in favor since I really really fear the drones in buster's hands but I wondered what other thought. Personally I don't like our chances for a solo victory

Edit-- reversed we and they at the end of the first paragraph

[Hercules]

Flubber in my view you're back there (never left) as our Ambassador and I agree with your strategy.

Re your second point re Drones and PACT with Cycon: probably, but our relations with the Borg, as you will have gathered, have soured a little lately.

Also I can't imagine the PUT will willingly lie down for a Drone victory. (A lot of egos, sorry eggheads there.) so scope for cooperation there too.

[Flubber]

Thanks herc

PUT-- I think there are a few people with an ax to grind with archaic so IMHO we should avoid any declared alliance with them . . . Really my hope is that some of the latent acrimony will spill over into the game and allow us to grow unhindered while the others take potshots at each other

CYcon-- have relations soured to the point that a pact forever is impossible or undesirable ?


I will await further input before approaching the CYcon-- after all, we are in no hurry to trade with them as long as we can forstall a DJ trade

[Hercules]

Well is there any further input. The turn is coming round again.

Should we contact Roze ( not a lot to offer) and or Miriam - or wait until we infiltrate Miriam.

[Hercules]

Regarding the Cycon and the PUT I think we should keep the diplomacy ticking over even if nothing more than titbits and pleasantries.