Official: Preffered Society Models

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kirov
Frankly speaking, I'm rather dissapointed (not to mention astonished), but maybe I misunderstand you; could you elucidate your pro-fundie stance little further?

Yeah, I'm wondering too. Are you perhaps a christian who believes in absolute truths and values?

[Lemmy]

Because:

1) Atrocities ar ejust that, atrocities;

2) Atrocities bring in none of the benefits of FM, and they create huge downsides.

Ey!
Don't bash atrocities like that, they aren't just atrocities, they are so much more then that, and their downsides are higly overestimated!

[Cedayon]

Originally posted by Maniac
Yeah, I'm wondering too. Are you perhaps a christian who believes in absolute truths and values?

Yep

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
Drogue:
I have to agree with GT. Either you want equality and you support communism/Marxism/whatever, or either you want a meritocracy and then you support a free market with a strong enough government to provide equal chances, rules & regulations, and checks & balances.

Sorry I didn't explain myself well. By equal, I mean equal opportunity. Everyone gets free education, and an equal start in life, not complete enforced equality. The latter is almost exactly my position. FM with rules and regulations To me, Green is closest to that. I am no Marxist, but I do not think it warrents dismissing, there are some important things that he brings up. In fact, I'm pretty much smack in the middle (which makes me right-wing for a student here )

GT: I'll reply more fully when I have time, but one quick point:

Nor is it in the slightest bit necessary

Neither is all this extra Ec and Research. Come to think of it, what is becessary? I think MWs, Iods and Locusts are very useful.

[Method]

drug, sorry, but i can't be bothered to read long posts. maybe later when i have time and no, i'm not just backing out because i have nothing to say, but also, if i do reply to this, it'll make me as hated as i was back in the days of P4

[GeneralTacticus]

Please...

'Kill' may be a bit strong, but ATM going Green would not bring in any benefits at all compared to FM.

Sorry I didn't explain myself well. By equal, I mean equal opportunity. Everyone gets free education, and an equal start in life, not complete enforced equality. The latter is almost exactly my position. FM with rules and regulations To me, Green is closest to that. I am no Marxist, but I do not think it warrents dismissing, there are some important things that he brings up. In fact, I'm pretty much smack in the middle (which makes me right-wing for a student here )

What on earth is it that makes you think that Green is FM with regulations? Logically, if this were the case, there would be at least some bonus to the economy, yet there is none.

Neither is all this extra Ec and Research. Come to think of it, what is becessary? I think MWs, Iods and Locusts are very useful.

When I said 'necessary', I meant 'useful enough to warrant going out of our way to get it'. Why do you consider native life forms so useful? They're far too easy to kill.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Has anyone had the thought that some of us are here NOT for the Roleplay but to improve their game and thus deliberately reducing our advantage is HIGHLY FRUSTRATING?

/me wishes there was an :eyebrowraise: smiley

[Method]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Has anyone had the thought that some of us are here NOT for the Roleplay but to improve their game and thus deliberately reducing our advantage is HIGHLY FRUSTRATING?

apparently not...

* MrWhereItsAt wishes there was an :eyebrowraise: smiley

i think i suggested one, but markos shot it down

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Has anyone had the thought that some of us are here NOT for the Roleplay but to improve their game and thus deliberately reducing our advantage is HIGHLY FRUSTRATING?

* MrWhereItsAt wishes there was an :eyebrowraise: smiley

Even so if we remove the RP aspects form the game it becomes too dry, we have sent his happen in the past when parties dissipated. RP makes the game more interesting, and besides there is no one set best way to play SMAC. Simply because you believe it would reduce our advantage does not mean that everyone is in agreement, furthermore we already have such a HUGE OVERWHELMING ADVANTAGE that we cannot possibly loose, I don’t believe a switch to Green impedes our advantage greatly (if at all).

[Method]

well how about this: if we run green now, can we switch back when we get digital sentience?

[GeneralTacticus]

I don’t believe a switch to Green impedes our advantage greatly (if at all).

It won't remove it, but it will signifcantly reduce it. Anyway, in RP terms, we should be doing everything possible to increase our advantage, for the sake of our people.

[GeneralTacticus]

I'm glad that atrocities don't bring any significant bonuses. You with Cedayon would have been first to nerve staple me and I would have had to seek asylum in the Hive faction...

Looks like you missed point 1).

[Drogue]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
What on earth is it that makes you think that Green is FM with regulations? Logically, if this were the case, there would be at least some bonus to the economy, yet there is none.

It does, in efficiency. It does not have the economy bonus, since it has regulations. Even a Planned system has an underlying market, it's just that it is careful controlled by the government.

When I said 'necessary', I meant 'useful enough to warrant going out of our way to get it'. Why do you consider native life forms so useful? They're far too easy to kill.

They're free, IoDs are the only transports that can attack, and it helps defend against them, since it only takes a couple of Locusts to wipe out a bases defenses under FM.

Has anyone had the thought that some of us are here NOT for the Roleplay but to improve their game and thus deliberately reducing our advantage is HIGHLY FRUSTRATING?

Yes, but I am not, therefore I vote and argue that way. If is highly frustrating for someone who RPs that people choose the best way, regardless of the RP consequences. We all argue and vote how we feel. Some of us are here to roleplay.

It won't remove it, but it will signifcantly reduce it. Anyway, in RP terms, we should be doing everything possible to increase our advantage, for the sake of our people.

No, we should do what is best for our people in the long run. Sustainability. What is best for our people now could leave our future in jepody.

[Cedayon]

Originally posted by Drogue
No, we should do what is best for our people in the long run. Sustainability. What is best for our people now could leave our future in jepody.

What indicates that our FM is not sustainable? Growth of the market (ie increase in per turn income) may slow as our bases reach development plateaus, but it seems fantastically unlikely that our income will actually go down significantly in the absence of a disaster (that would affect any market).

According to the game we aren't causing Planet enough harm for it to have a lasting effect (ie no ED), and our resources show no sign of drying up... most of our territory is one immense renewable resource: Forest.

We could sustain this for many thousands of turns if we so wished, only outside intervention could mess it up (and that, again, would mess any market system up).

[GeneralTacticus]

It does, in efficiency. It does not have the economy bonus, since it has regulations. Even a Planned system has an underlying market, it's just that it is careful controlled by the government.

Why would regulations serve to icnrease efficiency and reduce economy? Regulations usually create inefficiency, because they impose extra operating costs.

They're free, IoDs are the only transports that can attack, and it helps defend against them, since it only takes a couple of Locusts to wipe out a bases defenses under FM.

Not likely once we get the Neural Amplifier. Once we have that, combined with AAA... bring it on, mate, bring it on.

No, we should do what is best for our people in the long run. Sustainability. What is best for our people now could leave our future in jepody.

In this case, no it isn't. FM does not cause any ED whatsoever, and the problems of resources running out is one we have to face under any system (and, as Cedayon pointed out, most of our resources come from Forest, which will last forever).