OFFICIAL : Green Wealth

[Pandemoniak]

Following several citizen's suggestion, this poll will determine if we switch to Green Wealth -- please also post you favourite psych allocation regarding this, or stick to FM 40/20/40.

[GeneralTacticus]

Pande, the poll on FM has been held already. FM won. Thus, you can hold a poll on whether or not people would like Green/Wealth, for the next poll, but you cannot immediately post another poll which is effectively rehashing the previous decision.

[Pandemoniak]

Of course I can, and I said I would. The Green/Wealth choice hasnt been proposed facing FM while it is a very viable option. For the same reasons that I gave credit to your demand for a poll concerning FM 40/20/40, I have to answer the same way to those who proposed Green/Wealth.
And why cant I post "another poll which is effectively rehashing the previous decision. " ? Its not like if it was the same poll between green and FM, this one is answering to a very specific demand by the citizens.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Hopefully this will mean FM wins by an even larger margin - I noticed the poll in time to vote for this one...?

[GeneralTacticus]

Of course I can, and I said I would.

That you anounced your intent to do so beforehand makes no difference, especially considering the rather cryptic manner in which you expressed it.

The Green/Wealth choice hasnt been proposed facing FM while it is a very viable option.

People were voting in the previous poll on economics. They've chosen which system they prefer. Thus, asking them to vote again without changing any of the parameters is a blatant attempt at inavilidating a poll result you don't like.

For the same reasons that I gave credit to your demand for a poll concerning FM 40/20/40,

You did a poll on what Psych values everyone wanted for each economic system, as a prelude to the last one. There is a difference between establishing the parameters that people want before the actual poll and using them, and repolling something with a little extra tacked on to the end to see if people still think that way. You're free to do an unofficial poll on whether people would have voted Green/wealth and not just Green, or to put this poll up after the roders are implemented, but you cannot do it before.

And why cant I post "another poll which is effectively rehashing the previous decision. " ? Its not like if it was the same poll between green and FM,

Tacking a values system onto an economics poll doesn't change anything, especially whent eh matter of economics has already been democratically decided.

this one is answering to a very specific demand by the citizens.

If you wanted to answer that specific demand, you could have posted a poll asking if people wanted to change values to Wealth if Green won, which would become irrelevant if FM won.

[Archaic]

Hands up everyone who saw this coming a mile away.

The Green/Wealth option had already been discussed in the previous poll, and as I recall, stats comparing it to FM 40/20/40 were already posted as well. In essence, this matter has already been decided. After your comments in the SE election about the polls I posted during my term, HOW DARE YOU go and do this.

Is it your right to put this poll up? Yes. But when? After the next turnchat, when the previous orders are already implimented. Right now, this is just an attempt to inavilidating a poll result you don't like, just like GT has already said.

So much for you accepting the will of the people. Bad form Pan.....

[Cedayon]

Pan, the Green/Wealth option may become viable, but it is not currently. Even Maniac, the person who initially proposed the option, doesn't think it's a good idea for right now.

I'll try to see your actions in a good light, for now, but I see a lot of truth in the accusation that you're just doing this to delay the effects of/reverse a poll result you don't like. Standing in the way of the people's will isn't a good idea, particularly considering your job description.

edit- I move that the results of this poll, whatever they may be, do not take effect until after the next turnchat. It would be even better to simply invalidate them, and have a new poll after the turnchat, so everyone has a chance to see FM's advantages and disadvantages in action before making a decision.

[Lemmy]

I think Pande has every right to post this poll. Sure, people like Archaic will use this as against him as some hidden agende, but at least he posts polls

For the same reasons that I gave credit to your demand for a poll concerning FM 40/20/40, I have to answer the same way to those who proposed Green/Wealth.

Tacking a values system onto an economics poll doesn't change anything, especially whent eh matter of economics has already been democratically decided.

It may not change somthing now, but it is possible. If you agree that polling FM instead of FM 40/20/40 would have different results, why is it impossible that Green/Wealth will be different?

Hands up everyone who saw this coming a mile away.

You mean your post? I saw it coming the moment Pan was elected..

So much for you accepting the will of the people. Bad form Pan.....

Show me were his orders went against any poll results.

FM ahs been voted away many times before, does that mean he shouldn't have polled it at all?
Where is the limit on when to poll and when not? You all have different opinions about it, but it isn't defined anywhere how often polls may be posted, and how different polls must be?
I found the previous poll weird, since it had FM well defined with 40/20/40, while Green was unsettled.
If FM is what the people want, FM will be chosen. And this poll will finish before the next turnchat, unless GT moves it forward. So FM will still be implemented if its chosen.

Having said that, i voted for FM.

[Lemmy]

What should he have done instead?
Give order to switch to FM and wait for the turnchat to be held, and then post this poll which may make it necessary to switch to Green/Wealth the very next turnchat?

The argument that FM has been chosen democracticly once means nothing, it has been voted against many times, does that mean future poll are just rehashing those polls?
It seems to me the FM-people are nervous that FM may lose now and are willing to do anything to keep that one result where FM won.
Which is ridicilous, because if the people really want FM, they'll choose it again.

[Cedayon]

Originally posted by Lemmy
The argument that FM has been chosen democracticly once means nothing, it has been voted against many times, does that mean future poll are just rehashing those polls?

It's not rehashing if something has actually changed. Nothing has changed (game-wise, at least) since the last poll closed. No turnchats have gone by, etc... so the situation of FM coming up for a vote again and again after having been rejected is not a perfect analogue to the current situation.

It seems to me the FM-people are nervous that FM may lose now and are willing to do anything to keep that one result where FM won.

To be frank, I am somewhat nervous that this could result in us not going FM. That's not my reason for opposing this re-poll, though.

Which is ridicilous, because if the people really want FM, they'll choose it again.

I hope you're right.


edit-

What should he have done instead?
Give order to switch to FM and wait for the turnchat to be held, and then post this poll which may make it necessary to switch to Green/Wealth the very next turnchat?

That would have been acceptable to me, although I would have prefered he waited to post the poll until after the turnchat, so even the early voters could work off current info. As for the "switching right back" thing, well, that's somewhat undesirable but I don't think it's a massive problem considering that 5-7 years would be spent under the new system anyway.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Lemmy
What should he have done instead?
Give order to switch to FM and wait for the turnchat to be held, and then post this poll which may make it necessary to switch to Green/Wealth the very next turnchat?

Exactly that.

As for my problems with him posting this......the fact that he has the audacity to post it after using my posting of FM polls during my term as an election issue against me just stinks of double standards. At least I had an excuse (The confusion over if the previous poll was invalidated because of the constitution change or not). I see no excuse here when Green/Wealth was already addressed by both the Pro and Anti Green side's in the last poll.

[Lemmy]

It's not rehashing if something has actually changed. Nothing has changed (game-wise, at least) since the last poll closed. No turnchats have gone by, etc... so the situation of FM coming up for a vote again and again after having been rejected is not a perfect analogue to the current situation.

But the poll options has changed, as long as anything has changed that may effect the outcome of this poll, it has a right to exist.

[GeneralTacticus]

What should he have done instead?
Give order to switch to FM and wait for the turnchat to be held, and then post this poll which may make it necessary to switch to Green/Wealth the very next turnchat?

Yes. The situation would then have changed; people might have a reason to switch sides in the debate.

And as for Pan's claim that he's merely responding to the requests of certain citizens for a poll, I have seen nothing of the sort. There was some slightly OT discussion on the subject started off by Maniac, which concluded that it wasn;t viable at this point in time.

Which is ridicilous, because if the people really want FM, they'll choose it again.

As Cedayon said, i just hope you're right.

[Lemmy]

Exactly that.

That's inefficient, and could cost the UNP unnecessary credits.
While there is time for it, why not do it now, and maybe save us some credits.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Lemmy
But the poll options has changed, as long as anything has changed that may effect the outcome of this poll, it has a right to exist.

The issue was discussed in the last poll, and the swing votes were pretty much decided by this (See Maniac, the person who brought up the idea in the first place.). It doesn't need to be addressed again, slightly re-worded. Especially when the "several citizen's" Pan referred to all in the end decided FM was better.