Official : Economics

[Lemmy]

It seems that support for FM is rising, maybe in 2 or 3 weeks the majority will be for FM.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Never mind that then may be too late to use it effectively. The bigger our bases get, the more we will have to worry about ecol damage and drones under FM. It may still be viable, but please everyone - let's try the FM thing whilst our window of opportunity is still open!

[Archaic]

The window of opportunity will always be open so long as we're willing to go 20% Psych, which is what we're advocating anyway. But that doesn't mean we should keep holding off on switching so we can reap the benifits sooner.

[GeneralTacticus]

FM, of course.

[Main_Brain]

but in two weeks we will have Green...at least I hope so, and I guess we alllll like green?

[GeneralTacticus]

Quite bluntly: No. We don't all like Green.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Main_Brain
but in two weeks we will have Green...at least I hope so, and I guess we alllll like green?

-2 Growth would hurt us more than the +2 Efficiency could possibily gain us at this point. As GT has already well put it.....No. We don't all like Green.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
Quite bluntly: No. We don't all like Green.

But many (most?) people seem to

[Archaic]

Mainly because of
a) Intollerance towards FM
or
b) Ignorance

I love it too how people try to justify all these RP arguements about Green with the nature stuff, freely overlooking the loss of civil rights entailed by anything less than a free market.

[Drogue]

Loss of civil rights? I still don't buy into that. Maybe in pure planned, which is not what we want. To me, Green=FM with ecological ethos and public services, ie. a Mixed economy. Besides, ever heard of Libertarian Socialism? Relatively widely believed here.

And branding all that disagree with you ignorant is stupid. I don't acept your argument, just as you don't acc ept mine. So stop the insulting bull**** and recognise that some people value things more than FM, like the environment, worker rights etc. It doesn't make them ignorant, it means they have different aims and ideals to you. If you don't see that, then that's ignorance

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Drogue
Loss of civil rights? I still don't buy into that. Maybe in pure planned, which is not what we want.

Which is why you resist a change out of the current Pure Planned to a FM 20% Psych w/ all its lovely civil rights?

Originally posted by Drogue
To me, Green=FM with ecological ethos and public services, ie. a Mixed economy. Besides, ever heard of Libertarian Socialism? Relatively widely believed here.

FM w/ 20% psych = FM w/ Public Services and Welfare.

Stop making moral decisions for the citizens. Noit everyone supports your viewpoint, and there are valid counterarguements to it, so why should everyone be forced under your yoke of government regulation and oppression?

Originally posted by Drogue
And branding all that disagree with you ignorant is stupid. I don't acept your argument, just as you don't acc ept mine. So stop the insulting bull**** and recognise that some people value things more than FM, like the environment, worker rights etc. It doesn't make them ignorant, it means they have different aims and ideals to you. If you don't see that, then that's ignorance

You can value the environment under FM by exercising your right to choose what you buy.
FM has workers rights too, and a lot more of them than Planned does. Unions have massive bargaining power with their employers.

I brand you as ignorant because you *are*. You and Pan (and others) have made many assumptions about both the Free Market and Socialist markets which are simply not true, all in the name of promoting your viewpoint. That you continue to hold onto these viewpoints even after the flaws in your preception of them have been corrected is *WILLFUL IGNORANCE*.

As for not accepting arguements.....I don't accept yours because yours is flawed. You don't accept my arguement because you just don't like me, my style, or what I'm arguing about. BIG DIFFERENCE.


Now here's a nice RP arguement for you. You keep whinging about the environment.......but did you consider that thanks to the miracle of terraforming, it doesn't matter if we "ruin" the environment, because we can take the pollutants and turn them into useful materials that will end up helping the environment anyway? I don't know the exact science behind it, go ask the terraforming crews, but we're basically transmuting pollutants and useless materials into plants here. And considering there's no native life on this biosphere except for the ravenous worms, we don't even have to worry about harming the eco system when we replace "Planet Plants" with far better for us "Earth Plants".

[GeneralTacticus]

Not to mention that we're currently developing and implementing things which allow us to produce more at less environmental cost (Tree Farms, and fairly soon Hybrid Forests).

[Archaic]

Which in RP terms means we're building those Boreholes, etc w/ a combination of native and earth constructs in such a way that it doesn't disturb the environment. The only thing we'd have to worry about is our sheer production levels polluting....and with FM, we'll be able to increase those pollution caps easier, while under Green.......say hello to massive eco damage in the long term.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by Archaic
Which in RP terms means we're building those Boreholes, etc w/ a combination of native and earth constructs in such a way that it doesn't disturb the environment. The only thing we'd have to worry about is our sheer production levels polluting....and with FM, we'll be able to increase those pollution caps easier, while under Green.......say hello to massive eco damage in the long term.

Ie you build preservation parks next to the garbage deposits. And saying "FM will make more ED then less ED at long term, while Green will make less ED then more ED at long term" is... somewhat illogical to me. Anyway, Im not gonna argue. I'll let the people vote :

"The people knows everything"
Mikhael Gorbatchev, AD. 1991
Datalinks

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
Ie you build preservation parks next to the garbage deposits.

Don't put words in my mouth.
Actually, we wouldn't have garbae deposits. We haven't ever had them. Did you forget about the Recycling Tanks? Amazing what we can recycle thesedays. Literally everything.

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
And saying "FM will make more ED then less ED at long term, while Green will make less ED then more ED at long term" is... somewhat illogical to me.

It's not illogical, mearly counter-intuitive. We've already proven it's true, so counter-intuitive or not, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
Anyway, Im not gonna argue. I'll let the people vote :

"The people knows everything"
Mikhael Gorbatchev, AD. 1991
Datalinks

Unfortunatly, not all the people know everything. That's because not everyone is equal.