Office of the Director of Social Engineering

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Archaic
And considering that my style would seem to be superior to yours from what's been demonstrated Drogue, guess where that puts FM?

Hmmm, considering I've never played you, nor have you ever seen me play at all, that statement is completely untrue. And even if it were, you being a better player has absolutly nothing to do with which is best for our faction in this demo-game.

Originally posted by Archaic
I put rebuttals to FM's failings because they are failings that
1) Can be managed rather easily with a little micromanagement
and
2) Can be turned into assets (ie. Pops, *needed* to boost the clean mineral threshold, despite your protests to the contrary
The fact that you never seem to consider these facts only points our your lack of knowledge concerning how to use FM

The Con rebuttals to the "good points" simply point out things you have failed to consider time and time again. It's not my fault if you can't find a con for +2 Economy.

The failings of Green and Planned can be solved by micromanagement just as easily as the FM ones. And no, there isn't a downside to +2 Econ, its a plus, hence better There are downsides to -3 Planet and -5 Police however. Just like you can't find a down side to +2 Efficiency. But then, being a + I wouldn't expect you to.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell


Would you care to develop and give fact that prove that this statment is correct ?
If you do not, I will consider this as a personal towards other players, attacks which clearly does not have their places here.

Herc can attest to the fact that in every single MP game we've played together, I've been consistantly at the top of the power graph. While no game is yet finished, in all I am significantly more powerful than my rivals.

In a Head to head game I'm currently in against Flubber, who I believe would be considered one of the best players in the world, I as the University (A faction you'd think would have trouble with my style of playing with as much as you overhype the drone problem) are soundly beating the Drones, a faction especially tailored to your style of play. With the exception of the HGP and PEG (Both held by an AI ally of mine the Data Angels, who I should note I bribed to declare war on the Drones about 20 turns back), I hold every single project I currently have the tech for (And I'm many, many techs in front of the Drones), having built all but one. That one, the CDF, I captured from my Planet Cult neighbours, who I am now in the process of slowly mopping up.

Now, if you doubt my skill, I invite any here to challenge me to a 1 on 1, no AI, game of SMAX, with both of us using PK clone factions. Trancendance only victory. You think your style can beat me? I'd like to see you try.

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
I have already proved with facts , during your election, that it is clearly not the case. I see that you have carefully avoided speaking of my argument and rather concentrate only on the argument of people that support your FM policies.

So I will have to repeat them ( I'll summarize them this time).

About time. I already told you to post your arguements in this thread before I originally posted it.

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
*** The Fungal pop problem :

It is true to say that fungal pop blooming that occurs now will reduce eco-damage in the long term.
On the other hand, it is false to say that FM is a requirement to do so.

The reason is that "clean minerals" are unaffected by your SE choices. The Planet penalty that FM grant only make existing eco-damage greater and make them more uncontrollable.

Forcing Fungal pop is better accomplish via use of minerals haversting crawlers as it allows us to control how, where and when these pop occurs.

Also, as a side note, late game eco-damage is not a big problem contrary to what some people said. The reason is that late game empire are big enough to rush build nearly everything wich leads to less requirement on minerals. ( At least, I never had problems with it in my games).

One never said that Free Market was a requirement to Fungal Bloom, only that it made it easier.

The arguement against Free Market was that it *caused* more Fungal Blooms. People seem to say that Fungal Bloom was a bad thing. If you support that arguement, you don't support the arguement you've presented above, as they want absolutly *NO* eco-damage.

As for making eco-damage "uncontrollable", a switch to FM does not do this. Indeed, if anything, it makes it more controlable, as by moving formers around you can much more easily dictate where the pops will be, and how often they will happen, simply because of the wider variation on eco-damage levels. Furthermore, because more money is being made, there is actually a lower dependance on minerals. Like you noted, we're more easily able to rush build things with more money.

As for needing less minerals in the late game, while that is correct, you've ignored the fact that we need more fungal blooms now so that we'll be able to support the minerals we'll need later, mineral levels that, while relativly less than we need now, are still significantly higher by many factors than the mineral levels we could support without more pops now.

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
*** Drone problems :

We already have bases who uses doctor to control drone problems. Switching to FM will worsen these problems.
Pacifist drone will make it difficult to expand ,protect the terraformers and will make exploration that much difficult ( The director of exploration and intelligence will have a difficult time assuming his responsabilities in such a case).

Besides, switching to FM now will lead to the use of doctors which is counterproductive with the idea of FM ( at least now where we don't have that many workers).

If FM will worsen these problems, prove it? Basic psych facilities that should already be in place, along with doctors here and there, are more than enough, especially with FM's increased ability for Psych spending.
Pacifist Drones are not a problem. They are not an issue unless military units are moved out of the territory, or air units are constructed. Neither of those make it harder for us to expand (Or do you think every colony pod needs several escorts?), or to protect the terraformers (Base garrisons can do that job easily enough, if they aren't doing it already). Furthermore, by now, further exploration can already be accomplished by trading maps with other factions. The director of E&I should concentrate on the I, using Probe Teams to infiltrate other factions. Those self same Probe Teams can also be used to explore without causing Pacifist Drones.

Remember also, by switching to FM, which has greater efficiency than Planned, we have less B-Drones.

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
*** The Rush building factor :

Switching to FM will not grant us that many extra energy reserves and will not allow us to consistently use rush building. Which means that industry bonuses will serve us better RIGHT NOW than energy bonuses. ( When our bases will be bigger the situation will be different).

I'm glad to see that for once you acknowledge the long term benifits of FM. In the short term however, you've ignored one thing. They give us more flexability in choosing what we need hurried. And we need that flexability

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
*** The true bonus of FM :

It lies on the number of worker each city has as they are the only ones getting the bonus. We do not have enough workers at this time to make it worthwhile.

Pop booming via Dem-Planned-CC is much more important right now. FM will only reduce the pop growth and, due to drones problems, will make the growth more difficult to manage.

Incorrect. The true bonus of FM lies on the commerce from Pacts, and the boosted energy production, especially in the base tile, from the increase in Economy aided by any facilities such as Energy Banks that we've already built.

Pop Booming via Dem-Planned-CC is important, yes, and that would of course be what we'd do when we were able to do it on a worthwhile scale. ATM, do we have enough CC's in place to make it worthwhile?
The point is slightly moot though. We cannot change to FM until all military units are returned to territory. And considering who is the director of E&I, I can see my FM ambitions are going to be scuttled indirectly by his foolish plans.

Oh, and like I pointed out earlier, FM doesn't make the Drone Problems all that much more difficult to manage. You've forgottn how the Economy of FM can be used to overcome its Police downside. If I can manage them on Transcend with the University without the Virtual World (As I've had to in RTT), then we can manage it here.

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
*** Economy Bonus versus Efficency Bonus.

Economy is better suited to mid-sized empire, when the efficiency loss remain small and, due to not so many cities, when there are not many B drones.

Efficiency is better suited to big-sized empire with many cities where it will gain as much or more energy via reduction of energy loss than energy gain, plus bonus point for reducing B drones and allowing more flexible allocation of energy between Reasearch and Economy.

There can be points where Green can benifit research and cash flow more so than Free Market can, as I've noted many times. We however are not in any such position.
Oh, and make up your mind. If you want to make an anti-FM arguement, make an arguement for only Planned or only Green. This whole efficiency issue is in my favour if you're supporting Planned afterall.

-------------------------

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
If you really want to support FM policies, ask for a Pop Booming first, which will drastically increase the bonus granted by the extra economy provided by FM. Also, when empath will be available, it will allow the creation of Golden ages in our bases further ehancing the already existing bonus.

Do we have the CC's, Terraforming and Psych facilities in place to make a Pop Boom at this point in time worthwhile? The fact that we don't have Empaths yet when I'm used to gaining them by the 2160's to 2170's is rather disturbing. Doctors are of better use for creating Golden Ages though. And the extra pop will of course allow us to go Golden Age easier. But the whole point is, can we even Pop Boom in the first place.

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
In a few words => WE ARE NOT READY FOR A SWITCH RIGHT NOW !! IF YOU WANT FM, MAKE THE NECESSARY PREPARATION FIRST !

Allow me to be crude for a moment. NO ****ING ****! That's mainly the fault of people who've mismanaged our colony to this point. We should've been prepared by the 2130's.

Originally posted by Aaron Blackwell
Seeing that you have time to make personal critics toward other players and to post things like "My style is superior", you certainly have the time to respond to all those points.

It is not the first I make them and, as you told me during election, you mentioned that you were prepared to discuss them.

I am awaiting for your response

Responded. Now then........who wants that Head to Head? Most of my MP games are stalled ATM.

Originally posted by Drogue

Hmmm, considering I've never played you, nor have you ever seen me play at all, that statement is completely untrue. And even if it were, you being a better player has absolutly nothing to do with which is best for our faction in this demo-game.

Answered Aaron Blackwell on this same issue above.
I'd like to know wow you justify saying that me being a better player doesn't give me better insight on what is best for our faction in this Demo Game.

Originally posted by Drogue
The failings of Green and Planned can be solved by micromanagement just as easily as the FM ones.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Drogue
And no, there isn't a downside to +2 Econ, its a plus, hence better There are downsides to -3 Planet and -5 Police however. Just like you can't find a down side to +2 Efficiency. But then, being a + I wouldn't expect you to.

Downsides to -3 Planet and -5 Police that I've already shown how to counter or make irrelevant.
"+ I"? I'm unfamiliar with that term.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Archaic
Herc can attest to the fact that in every single MP game we've played together, I've been consistantly at the top of the power graph. While no game is yet finished, in all I am significantly more powerful than my rivals...

Now, if you doubt my skill, I invite any here to challenge me to a 1 on 1, no AI, game of SMAX, with both of us using PK clone factions. Trancendance only victory. You think your style can beat me? I'd like to see you try.

A game on your terms with an add on I don't even have! And this is SP not MP, so whether or not you are better has no effect on what is better for this faction now. I don't agree you are a better player in this situation, but I do accept you are a good player. And even if you are better, it's about as relevant as me saying I'm more intelligent than you, so therefore what I say matters more. There's at least as much evidence to support that as your statement.

Since we'll win whatever way, what does it matter what's easier? I'm sure you are a good player on your own, but with you're attitude, refusal to listen to anyone's arguments you disagree with, and constant insults, you really aren't a good team player.

Originally posted by Archaic
Oh, and make up your mind. If you want to make an anti-FM arguement, make an arguement for only Planned or only Green. This whole efficiency issue is in my favour if you're supporting Planned afterall.

Why argue only for one. I agree, using either one all the way through would be a mistake. I use Planned up until I've virtually finished colonizing, and then Green for efficiency. I'll make an argument for both, because I support both.

Originally posted by Archaic
Responded. Now then........who wants that Head to Head? Most of my MP games are stalled ATM.

I'd love to, but sadly I have a slow dial-up connection that I can't use for long periods, no SMAX, my SMAC multi-player only works sporadically, and I'm way to busy doing exams and prep for my Oxford interview to have the time for one. However, when that's all sorted, I'd love to.

Originally posted by Archaic
Answered Aaron Blackwell on this same issue above.
I'd like to know wow you justify saying that me being a better player doesn't give me better insight on what is best for our faction in this Demo Game.

Because this is SP not MP, so different strategys work best; because what is best for our faction now is the important bit, rather than what is the best way playing from scratch; and mostly because we will win either way, so it's how we win that matters.

Originally posted by Archaic
Downsides to -3 Planet and -5 Police that I've already shown how to counter or make irrelevant.

Yes you showed how to counter, but because you showed how to counter FM problems and not Planned or Green problems, I was jokingly pointing how how blatantly biased it was.

Originally posted by Archaic
"+ I"? I'm unfamiliar with that term.

"being a + I wouldn't expect you to" was what I wrote, which means that with the efficiency being a bonus (ie. a +) I wouldn't expect you to find a con for +2 Efficiency. Just like I can't find one for + 2 Econ.

[Hercules]

Archaic: the only games where we have yet met from the start are a long way from resolution: yes you may be ahead on the graphics at this stage but PK and UNI most always ahead at this year turn level. Any other games I am involved with you I joined as a replacement, so i feel I have inherited a low rating situation. I 'm not complaining, there is a lot to learn but it is not entirely of my making.

I acknowledge as many do, you are a fine player. I would enjoy a head to head (under standard terms). Maybe new H2Hs between rival philosphies would be decisive. 1 a Conquer scenario and 2 a transcendence scenario and with and agreed eco damage ceiling.

[Archaic]

I'll make a full reply to you ASAP Drogue, but in the meanwhile..

Agreed Ecodamage Ceiling Herc? Surely you jest. The only thing that would accomplish would be putting a crimp on my playing style, and we both know that.