The Recreation Commons : third floor.

[Method]

a clever idea, el presidente. i have however had to put my monopolistic ambitions on hold temporarily to pursue my engaging carreer in internal affairs...back when i was in a lowly research position, i had much more time for such things, but now i can barely fit Xenobrew Inc. in between my time ruling over a council of governors and torturing innocent livestock in the depths of the CIAC performing research for the betterment of humanity

[GeneralTacticus]

Why not just hire someone else to manage it for you, then?

Hell, if we go FM, I can sell you the state hologram theatres through Centralis if you like All you'd have to do would be pay up and then pay the salaries of the local staff.

[Method]

well, following History Guy's mysterious disappearance (i suspect Lemmy ) i've had a lot more to do...but i guess it's not as if i really need a monopoly on the 3D holovision market...christ, i'm set for life as it is

[GeneralTacticus]

You mean I can't sell you the state industries and become obscenely rich in the process?

[Method]

nah...

[Lemmy]

actually...TKG, i...erhm, spoke to History Guy a few days ago...and...er....he agreed to hand me over his share of Xenobrew Inc., so....uhm...i could...erm...take over from you while you occupy yourself with 3D holovision or you're government duties.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
You mean I can't sell you the state industries and become obscenely rich in the process?

The citizens of Terminal Dogma would love to purchase a few.

[Maniac]

Now now, let's not repeat the mistakes of the sudden free-marketization of late twentieth century Russia.

[Kassiopeia]

.... which were?

[Maniac]

From what I seem to remember of my geography classes about Russia four years back or so: the privatization of state industries was not handled well which resulted in the apparatsjki (sp?) gaining full control over these companies. Essentially state monopolies were replaced by private monopolies. So free market already ceased to exist from the very beginning. Also these new corporate moghuls, especially one with several television broadcasting corporations (can't recall his name), had a lot of economic power, as a logical result they had a lot of political power and controlled Boris Jeltsin. Besides that the simple speed of the transition, putting people in an entirely different system in no time, leading to lots of insecurity and instability. Really, China is a much better example of how "free-marketization" should be done. More gradual.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
Have you no shame!?! Using products of that monopolistic polluting Morgan?? Take Pandemonium Hologram Theatre , that at least uses 3D HoloVision Technology, created by scientists of our own magnificent faction!

Built in Aurora, by Auroran workers, but using technology from our cultural exchange with the Morganites.

Originally posted by Maniac
Well it's just me, but I would prefer to walk in the lush forests of Terminal Dogma and soon Valhalla instead of some desert hills.

Desert? I see little desert, I sea a beautiful, moist, hilly coastline. Muct like Scotland of old Earth actually. very beautiful, as the Ansel Eves photographs will show

Originally posted by Maniac
You mean Morgan's consumerist doctrines?

No, mostly local culture, although once a year, we hold a Planet-wide music festival. Morgan has no say in Auroran culture. That is decided by what the people wish to see.

Originally posted by Maniac
Just wondering, where is that? The SW seas?

The Large mass of fungus between Cyclops and Twin Peaks.

Originally posted by Maniac
Blah, the whole of Jedinica Vrijstaat is socially progressive.

As is Akiria, yet New Tassagrad especially so.

Originally posted by Maniac
Just as in Jedinica Vrijstaat: zero eco-damage. And we don't have to outlaw all industry to reach that environmental health.

Neither do we. We just outlaw boreholes, as they are a messy, polluting blight on the landscape.

Originally posted by Maniac
Which means what? That you oppress any Akirian who doesn't belong to your party?

Nope, it further highlights our environmental credentials. We oppress no-one. Everyone is equal, and has equal say.

Originally posted by Maniac
Then how will you feed your people?

With little difficulty. We have just built 2 condensers in the last 5 years, and have plans for another 2 in the next 10. We also have much agriculture, naturally irrigated by the freshwater sea.

Originally posted by Maniac
No we dumped all the remaining garbage in the sea.

* Maniac punches back.

I do not respond to drunken idiots trying to start fights Although Chief of Police Herc may well decide to arrest you That would look good for Jedinica...

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
From what I seem to remember of my geography classes about Russia four years back or so: the privatization of state industries was not handled well which resulted in the apparatsjki (sp?) gaining full control over these companies. Essentially state monopolies were replaced by private monopolies. So free market already ceased to exist from the very beginning. Also these new corporate moghuls, especially one with several television broadcasting corporations (can't recall his name), had a lot of economic power, as a logical result they had a lot of political power and controlled Boris Jeltsin. Besides that the simple speed of the transition, putting people in an entirely different system in no time, leading to lots of insecurity and instability. Really, China is a much better example of how "free-marketization" should be done. More gradual.

Exactly IIRC. Although much of Eastern Europe did it more effectivly than Russia, doing it quickly. I would not use China as a shining example personally. I think changing quickly causes less disturbance (at least that's what were taught in economics - the Nike philosophy, "Just Do It"). However blatant back-handed deals help nobody (except the two making them).

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Maniac
From what I seem to remember of my geography classes about Russia four years back or so: the privatization of state industries was not handled well which resulted in the apparatsjki (sp?) gaining full control over these companies. Essentially state monopolies were replaced by private monopolies. So free market already ceased to exist from the very beginning. Also these new corporate moghuls, especially one with several television broadcasting corporations (can't recall his name), had a lot of economic power, as a logical result they had a lot of political power and controlled Boris Jeltsin. Besides that the simple speed of the transition, putting people in an entirely different system in no time, leading to lots of insecurity and instability. Really, China is a much better example of how "free-marketization" should be done. More gradual.

I see. I am Enlightened. For some reason, we don't have much of Russian post-Soviet history at school. I did know the companies got way too much power, but to such an extent?

[Maniac]

I think changing quickly causes less disturbance (at least that's what were taught in economics - the Nike philosophy, "Just Do It").

The "short pain", no? So does that Nike philosophy claim there won't be any massive unemployment, which the state can impossible handle, due to such sudden changes? And does it say there won't be impossible foreign competition for the own companies?
Really, if I were a Russian or Chinese, I would have stayed very protectionist for quite a while, allowing the own industries to modernize, and then open the markets. Probably people would have be sacked in the process, but I wouldn't do it all at once, but gradually, lessening the social problems.
Of course protectionism is always bad for the economic top doggies, now the USA and EU, so they try to present free trade as the ultimate economic doctrine, and try to enforce it on the rest of the world.

For some reason, we don't have much of Russian post-Soviet history at school.

I see. I presume your big bully neighbour Russia is presented as the all-time evil empire in Finnish schools?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
The "short pain", no? So does that Nike philosophy claim there won't be any massive unemployment, which the state can impossible handle, due to such sudden changes? And does it say there won't be impossible foreign competition for the own companies?

We're told there will be massive unemployment, especially if regulation is not done correctly. However, we are told that there will be even more if the change is gradual and slow.

Originally posted by Maniac
Really, if I were a Russian or Chinese, I would have stayed very protectionist for quite a while, allowing the own industries to modernize, and then open the markets. Probably people would have be sacked in the process, but I wouldn't do it all at once, but gradually, lessening the social problems.
Of course protectionism is always bad for the economic top doggies, now the USA and EU, so they try to present free trade as the ultimate economic doctrine, and try to enforce it on the rest of the world.

Its not that we're taught that free trade is best for everyone. We're told the free trade is the only option that will allow other markets to open up to your goods. I campaign against free trade, I think there should be a period of protectionism that a country is allowed, even when dealing with the IMF and World Bank, before they are given trade sanctions. Sadly that isn't the case yet though, so countries have to sink or swim If only the USA would realise that, although they like it, may others do not want free trade, and it isn't good for many developing countries. It's strange how the USA supports free trade, citing the freedom of the people to choose, but then enforce protectionist policies on knowledge and copyrights. It isn't pro-Liberty, it's pro-business, plain and simple.